Another Genetics vs Training

[Swine-Stalker]

Before you go  on me, I am still trying to figure things out 

I lost my 2yr old GSP last weekend and I have 2 options of replacing him. Both options are long range, line bred dogs. We hunt med range (700yds-1.25mi), silent, and some grit with alot of bottom.

Would a line bred, long range, independent type pup/young dog learn to be more medium if hunted with med range dogs, or would genetics supersede his learned actions?

Would it be ruining a dog if he gets out long range, and has no one to learn from at that distance, or again since he is line bred, would his genetics and training allow him to progress?

How much would his genetics play a factor in him hunting out a few miles and how much of it can be controled by learning from hunting with other finished dogs that hunt closer? I would like to think that if he is out and acknowleges a few bays at a shorter range, that he can still catch on, which means he wouldnt be at a handicap for getting out a little further than the rest, I just dont know if genetics plays a big factor in range and I dont want a 2+mile dog.

We hunt somewhat small plots of land and most of the pigs are struck 300-500yds out (some a little further), so as long as he isnt like my gsp in that aspect (passing up sign to hunt at 1mi) then I believe the dog will be okay... but again I am a rookie.

I may be reading into this too much and should just dig in and do it, but I want to know what to expect incase I wouldnt be giving the dog his full chance... I guess I am more so questioning genetics vs learned abilities/training again 

[djhogdogger]

 In my opinion when someone says "train" when pertaining to hunting dogs, it just means smoothing off the rough edges of natural instinct. We can put a handle on a dog and teach it basic commands but I think that a dog is going to range, and hunt more by what its DNA allows it to do. We can give the dog more oportunities to hone its skills but we cant change its natural instincts. Being a young pup, it may stick with the dogs that you run it with. But I still think that if long range is in its blood, it will show up sooner or later.

 This is only my opinion.

[halfbreed]

stalker i think alot of the [ long range ] dogs vs medium hunters is man made all my dogs that hunt with me turn out to be medium hunters plotts hounds , hound crosses whatever . when worked as a pup if you spend enough time with them in the woods when young , you can control how you want them to hunt . when i'm messing with young dogs out in the woods just walking around getting them woodswise if they start ranging off too far for my likeing i'll call em in and walk another direction . now this is just for hunting . do to the hound in them if they find a track they like they will move it till the end wich i don't mind a bit . but all in all i think it is a learned behavior . i also think the more independant a dog is the further they will range out . but as a pup i have allways been able to pretty much have them hunting the range i want and not just taking off and doing what the dogs want and not paying no mind to where i want the dog to go .

[djhogdogger]

stalker i think alot of the [ long range ] dogs vs medium hunters is man made all my dogs that hunt with me turn out to be medium hunters plotts hounds , hound crosses whatever . when worked as a pup if you spend enough time with them in the woods when young , you can control how you want them to hunt . when i'm messing with young dogs out in the woods just walking around getting them woodswise if they start ranging off too far for my likeing i'll call em in and walk another direction . now this is just for hunting . do to the hound in them if they find a track they like they will move it till the end wich i don't mind a bit . but all in all i think it is a learned behavior . i also think the more independant a dog is the further they will range out . but as a pup i have allways been able to pretty much have them hunting the range i want and not just taking off and doing what the dogs want and not paying no mind to where i want the dog to go .

You make a very good point that I didn't even think of. We like longer ranged dogs so its a big no, no to walk with them or they will stay in closer, making smaller circles. It didn't even cross my mind because of the way that we hunt.

[PLP]

My humble opinion would be that a go yander dog is like that because he is on track. My jagd gyp and plott male combination will routinely put 15 miles after a hog but if no sign is struck in a 8-900 yd loop they come back and we move on. I guess the difference is whether it is a long range hunter or Long range tracking dog. My hogs run so bad so maybe my perception is skewed. So my question is do u want the dog to quit a track at a certain distance or only hunt out to a certain distance. I'm thinkning that u can harness that desire in the dog but it can't be added.

[Swine-Stalker]

Thanks Mrs. Dinah. From the little that I do know lol, I know that range is genetics with a rare odd ball here or there in a litter. I was just unsure of the amount of impact it would have if he "learned" the woods game from med dogs. And by training i meant learned traits from other dogs in the pack. The pack training the dog.

[Coondog13]

Halfbreed,you must not be hunting Walkers because they going to roll regardless of your hunting style.

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[halfbreed]

no quitting allowed  lol i hunt mainly farm land and if there are no hogs in this paticular field i want the dogs to return and load up not take it upon themselves to go 5 pastures over looking for a hog . if they get on a track they better finish it , and if that takes them to the field 5 pastures away all is well .

[Swine-Stalker]

stalker i think alot of the [ long range ] dogs vs medium hunters is man made all my dogs that hunt with me turn out to be medium hunters plotts hounds , hound crosses whatever . when worked as a pup if you spend enough time with them in the woods when young , you can control how you want them to hunt . when i'm messing with young dogs out in the woods just walking around getting them woodswise if they start ranging off too far for my likeing i'll call em in and walk another direction . now this is just for hunting . do to the hound in them if they find a track they like they will move it till the end wich i don't mind a bit . but all in all i think it is a learned behavior . i also think the more independant a dog is the further they will range out . but as a pup i have allways been able to pretty much have them hunting the range i want and not just taking off and doing what the dogs want and not paying no mind to where i want the dog to go .

So that is why my first set of spotted dogs never left my feet   j/k there are good ones but these were trashy bred dogs for color

Thanks, I remember my good buddy (user jakes) telling me exactly what you stated but I have been getting well started dogs within our group that are set in there ways so I let them do what they do. But... we have always told others with us not to talk to our dogs unless they are congradulating them on a caught hog. I havent messed with any younger dogs or pups but I moved and now have the acreage and means to let them run through the woods, mock hunt and train.

[halfbreed]

i've run walkers all my life  lol  and they have all been medium range check back in dogs . but they were all raised by me from pups and had a lot of woods time . me walking them as pups thru the woods often and from a very young age . i won't tollerate a long range dog that hunts for it's self. a dog has to hunt with and for me to be on my yard . but i've never bought a grown dog that's allready started every dog i've ever hunted was raised and conditioned to my hunting preferance . i still as of now hunt strictly on foot and can't have it any other way  lol  i will allways beleive that any dog conditioned and worked with from a pup will turn out to hunt the way the owner want's , if worked properly and enough time is put in the dog .  the desire to hunt is born into the dog , but the way or distance the dog hunts is each man or womans preferance .

[Swine-Stalker]

My humble opinion would be that a go yander dog is like that because he is on track. My jagd gyp and plott male combination will routinely put 15 miles after a hog but if no sign is struck in a 8-900 yd loop they come back and we move on. I guess the difference is whether it is a long range hunter or Long range tracking dog. My hogs run so bad so maybe my perception is skewed. So my question is do u want the dog to quit a track at a certain distance or only hunt out to a certain distance. I'm thinkning that u can harness that desire in the dog but it can't be added.

It depends on the track to me which fall on his nose. I wouldnt want them running an old track and following it out across alot of properties. Dont get me wrong, I like seeing a hog at the end of a track but a med nosed dog is what I would like. Not too hot not too cold. I like chasing dogs but only when they are on a chase themselves. Too hot for me to have a go yonder and yonder and yonder dog lol