|
Purebreedcolt
|
 |
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2012, 01:59:21 pm » |
|
Waylon why I ask if you haave even owned any as I suspect you haven't you would see how some coyote could be in there by the way they act. I cull pretty hard for disobedience and the damn lacys can be some wiley suckers. There is no documentation from the lacy brothers them selves that I am aware of other than some saying them driving hogs with lacys the only documentation I have seen is from kin folk of the lacy brothers.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Lacy man
|
 |
« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2012, 02:17:01 pm » |
|
I've always been a bit curious about this...
If memory serves me correctly, is there one of the registries that will not accept registrations for dogs that have been linebred?
With that in mind, how do you ever "start" a breed of dog and get to the point of them breeding true to type without linebreeding / inbreeding them? In my mind, it's virtually impossible.
The Tlgda does not allow it, one of many reasons the NLDA was formed. The Nlda allows for line breeding. Hints the association I'm in I ll be line breeding when I cross some of the dogs in my yard and my partners. Now IMO you can in a consistency with the Nlda dogs most look very similar in size weight etc etc. now when you go to other groups I ve seen lacys with ears of coon hounds i ve seen 65lbs dogs that look nothing like mine. So just depends who ya talk to and by their opinion is on the dog. There is definitely some trash out there no doubt about it. The popularity of the "state dog" has hurt the breed. IMO |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
sfboarbuster
|
|
« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2012, 03:29:16 pm » |
|
Waylon why I ask if you haave even owned any as I suspect you haven't you would see how some coyote could be in there by the way they act. I cull pretty hard for disobedience and the damn lacys can be some wiley suckers. There is no documentation from the lacy brothers them selves that I am aware of other than some saying them driving hogs with lacys the only documentation I have seen is from kin folk of the lacy brothers.
I've had some leopard dogs that you can't put your hands on and just have that look in their eyes. So, does this mean they have yote/wolf blood in them? You can't pick out one trait and say they must have some yote in em because of it! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
John Esker
|
|
|
|
Purebreedcolt
|
|
« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2012, 03:56:14 pm » |
|
Lol dangit boar buster I ci am getting flustered. No I don't metake one trait and go off of it alone I gues would have to own a couple lacys and have been around coyotes a lot to understand what I am trying say so will leave it at this I see lots of the same traits in yotes and lacys. I can see the grey hound in the heads and body structure of them. Hound and cur who knows I see where both might be in there somewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jpepper
|
|
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2012, 04:07:31 pm » |
|
I know exactly where you're coming from purebreedcolt. Just the way they tend to carry themselves. I got a border collie and smart as hell but can't solve a problem like a good Lacy can.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Wmwendler
|
|
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2012, 04:07:37 pm » |
|
Skiddish behavior in a dog does not say coyote or wolf in the breeding at all to me. There are lots of dogs that act that way, it certainly does not mean they have coyote or wolf in thier recent back ground. Yes all dogs originated from the wolf a LONG time ago. But that was 1000s of years ago. Much has happened since then and it is not the same thing as having a wolf in the recent lineage.
I once tried to raise a coyote pup and it was a total failure. I have talked to others who have tried it with similar results. Yes, I too once bought in hard to the sensational idea that having a coyote cross hog dog could create a super hog dog. The coyote pup was young enough not to fear me much when I found it, other than the natural survival instinct type wearyness that even domestic dog pups have when they first see a man. So i figgured it would be easy to tame. I figured wrong. The pup only got wilder as it got older, dispite allot of easy handling. It never acepted the dogs and the dogs never accepted it. Eventually you realize all you have is a wild animal in a kennel, and have to give up the sensational idea. Raising wild animals like wolves and coyotes, and taming them up enough to be able to sufficiently work with is hard enough, expecting them to have the instincts to become usefull hunting/working/herding dogs is just absurd. Looking back, it was a foolish idea, but we all live and learn at some point. Sure wolves have hunting instinct, but they hunt to survive, to eat. They dont hunt for anyone other than them selves. They certainly dont have refined herding instincts that are usefull to a stockman. They will always pickout the weakest animal to take down, and they will be done hunting once they get full on meat. None of those traits would contribute to a stock working dog and very little to a hunting dog. At most a sucessfull hunt behind a wolf or wolf cross would be to bag one individual out the target group, most likely a young or injured one and it would be partially eaten when you get there. Not a success at all in my opinion.
Then there is the other side of the story. wolves/coyotes and dogs mix like oil and water. Purpose breeding of domestic dogs can be hard enough. Let alone trying to cross wolves and dogs.
Waylon
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
sfboarbuster
|
|
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 04:08:02 pm » |
|
I'm going to have to disgree on the mentality being a cur breed. If you have never been around one you would not understand what I mean. I'm not talking tracks or what ever but take a hot fence my female is a master escape artist she will literally stand there at it thinking how to avoid it and get out. Just things like that. You would truly have to be around one to understand what I mean. Tbob your thinking smart and yes there are some durn smart dogs out there but for a dog to really think I don't see as much.
The velociraptors in Jurrassic Park did that exact same thing, I wonder if some of that way back in the lacy's history? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
John Esker
|
|
|
|
Jpepper
|
|
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2012, 04:15:07 pm » |
|
I'm going to have to disgree on the mentality being a cur breed. If you have never been around one you would not understand what I mean. I'm not talking tracks or what ever but take a hot fence my female is a master escape artist she will literally stand there at it thinking how to avoid it and get out. Just things like that. You would truly have to be around one to understand what I mean. Tbob your thinking smart and yes there are some durn smart dogs out there but for a dog to really think I don't see as much.
The velociraptors in Jurrassic Park did that exact same thing, I wonder if some of that way back in the lacy's history? Probably got some t-rex though |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TexasHogDogs
|
|
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2012, 05:04:06 pm » |
|
Well one thing about it is this . Unless you was there to see it with your on two eyes when the breed came into existence are any breed for that matte then what I see and believe thats in them is just as good as what you see and believe is in them. Unless you were there when it happened then everything is speculation I dont care how well doucmented it is are what book it is in. Its to easy to lie and then go doucment it as history !!!!!!!!!!
So were does this leave us on any breed of dog unless you were there to witness it in person well its to each his on and what he thinks and believes.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
|
|
|
|
Purebreedcolt
|
|
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2012, 05:24:25 pm » |
|
So you don't think I am full of it I went back through some old pictures of me when I was a kid and found these pictures of me and the half kelpie half yote. Her name was shasta and she was one heck of a stock dog. Back then we had goats sheep and cattle and it did not matter what u told her to round up she was going to ge it done. Was a little rough but it didn't take long and the sheep or goats woudent act up lol. The closest thing to her that I have found is a lacy in their demeanor and actions so I will argue this one to the grave lol there are 2 dogs truly special to me and she was one of them.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Reuben
|
|
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2012, 05:30:04 pm » |
|
Skiddish behavior in a dog does not say coyote or wolf in the breeding at all to me. There are lots of dogs that act that way, it certainly does not mean they have coyote or wolf in thier recent back ground. Yes all dogs originated from the wolf a LONG time ago. But that was 1000s of years ago. Much has happened since then and it is not the same thing as having a wolf in the recent lineage.
I once tried to raise a coyote pup and it was a total failure. I have talked to others who have tried it with similar results. Yes, I too once bought in hard to the sensational idea that having a coyote cross hog dog could create a super hog dog. The coyote pup was young enough not to fear me much when I found it, other than the natural survival instinct type wearyness that even domestic dog pups have when they first see a man. So i figgured it would be easy to tame. I figured wrong. The pup only got wilder as it got older, dispite allot of easy handling. It never acepted the dogs and the dogs never accepted it. Eventually you realize all you have is a wild animal in a kennel, and have to give up the sensational idea. Raising wild animals like wolves and coyotes, and taming them up enough to be able to sufficiently work with is hard enough, expecting them to have the instincts to become usefull hunting/working/herding dogs is just absurd. Looking back, it was a foolish idea, but we all live and learn at some point. Sure wolves have hunting instinct, but they hunt to survive, to eat. They dont hunt for anyone other than them selves. They certainly dont have refined herding instincts that are usefull to a stockman. They will always pickout the weakest animal to take down, and they will be done hunting once they get full on meat. None of those traits would contribute to a stock working dog and very little to a hunting dog. At most a sucessfull hunt behind a wolf or wolf cross would be to bag one individual out the target group, most likely a young or injured one and it would be partially eaten when you get there. Not a success at all in my opinion.
Then there is the other side of the story. wolves/coyotes and dogs mix like oil and water. Purpose breeding of domestic dogs can be hard enough. Let alone trying to cross wolves and dogs.
Waylon
Waylon...that is some mighty fine logic...I like your brain...  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
|
|
|
|
Corey
|
|
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2012, 05:42:59 pm » |
|
It always boils down to selection and culling practices. Who did it and why? I'm always curious what is behind my dogs, the harder i look the more i realize all the WHATS ?? in the wood pile. I don't believe any breed is exactly as documented. What qualities do you feed, because thats all you can change. JMO
OHHHH!!!! And i think these red river hogs decend from zebras.......at the first hint they're running.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TexasHogDogs
|
|
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2012, 06:03:30 pm » |
|
Well from what I see with my own eyes and not what I hear are read Am with PurebreedColt on this one. Of course I cannot say for sure nobody can but when I watch some of these Lacys over the years and still some out here it sure looks like a peice of the puzzle that fits when it comes to yotes not wolf but yotes also the greyhound fits for me. The dogs are extremely fast extremely quick also their head and bone structure look a lot alike the greyhound now on the other hand when it comes to the yotes I also see the head and bone sturcture, I see the prey drive. I see the staminia of a yote cause a yote is known to run all nite long after prey from one county to the next with that said I see the cleverness and the wiseness of the yotes in the Lacy dogs its a different kinda cleverness and I also see the meaness which a Lacy has a real wild mean streak grouchy pissed off trait in them its different from any of the dogs that I have owned are bred in my life time and that includes 25 years are more with the Pit Bulls. A person may say well what do you mean . I cannot explain it its just there and its different . Also the Lacys love a good fight and there is no doubts when you are around them long nuff they go by dominaces and they damn sure know who the dominate dog is of course this is in a lot of dogs but untill you have run a full pack of Lacys you aint seen Chit when it comes to this dominate trait they have amoung themself unlike any breed I have see its big time in the Lacys.
Anyway just my 6 cents worth !
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
|
|
|
|
Purebreedcolt
|
|
« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2012, 06:15:44 pm » |
|
Holly cow it is a miracle texashogdogs we agree on something lol
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TexasHogDogs
|
|
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2012, 08:11:57 pm » |
|
Yup lol and I got to tell ya you was right on the other also . I just had to do what I had to do to keep the peace. But now that Am not going to be using a registery to register Lacys are be breeding these dogs on a reg basics. I got to say there is only one way to keep a foundation of dogs gene pool strong and clean and that is to be able to linebreed , heavy linebreed and to inbreed with the strictest rules and to cull what needs to be culled. The more people scatter breed these dogs the futher and futher from the true dogs this breed is going to get till it is so watered down there noting left but the color.
Yup we agree.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
|
|
|
|
Reuben
|
|
« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2012, 08:17:08 pm » |
|
Yup lol and I got to tell ya you was right on the other also . I just had to do what I had to do to keep the peace. But now that Am not going to be using a registery to register Lacys are be breeding these dogs on a reg basics. I got to say there is only one way to keep a foundation of dogs gene pool strong and clean and that is to be able to linebreed , heavy linebreed and to inbreed with the strictest rules and to cull what needs to be culled. The more people scatter breed these dogs the futher and futher from the true dogs this breed is going to get till it is so watered down there noting left but the color.
Yup we agree.
breeding for color will eventually become easy...but breeding for the right traits is hard for some folks for different reasons...right off the top of my head...  greed, lack of know how, not having the strictest of breeding standards... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
|
|
|
|
Wmwendler
|
|
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2012, 08:37:51 pm » |
|
purebreedcolt.......she certainly looks the part and I don't think you are full of it, but just curious did you see the breeding or know the dogs sire and dam? How exactly did that cross pop up? Did a keplie stud sneak up on a yote gyp stuck in a mud hole or did a kelpie gyp get ambushed by a yote who eventually decided he was more horny than hungry?
Waylon
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Purebreedcolt
|
|
« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2012, 08:50:09 pm » |
|
Lol waylon figured you would ask. The story goes that it was a male yote and female kelpie. They woke up one night to a heck of a squable and there was a yote in the yard and the male kelpie was fighting with him well. 63 days later she popped out looking totally different than the rest. So yes in sorts it was seen not quite though. I was only 2 or so I guess I can't say for sure lmao
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Easttex91
|
|
« Reply #78 on: September 04, 2012, 10:41:01 pm » |
|
I don't know anything about them but Lacy Man brought two of his over one day and bayed them with my cur gyp who's in good shape and they were WAY faster than her and that was in a pen. I can't imagine how far ahead of her they'd have been if they had more room to run. Looks wise though they look like a stream lined cur dog to me.
One thing I wonder is if the Laceys today are built the same as the originals?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Lacy man
|
|
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2012, 10:44:54 pm » |
|
Well one thing about it is this . Unless you was there to see it with your on two eyes when the breed came into existence are any breed for that matte then what I see and believe thats in them is just as good as what you see and believe is in them. Unless you were there when it happened then everything is speculation I dont care how well doucmented it is are what book it is in. Its to easy to lie and then go doucment it as history !!!!!!!!!!
So were does this leave us on any breed of dog unless you were there to witness it in person well its to each his on and what he thinks and believes.
Couldn't agree more |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
