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Noah
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« on: January 30, 2013, 06:56:24 pm » |
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I am considering it. Both individuals are precisely what I want more of. What yall inbreeding(  ) experts think? |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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jerryg
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 07:15:28 pm » |
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My last breeding was a brother x sister because that is all I had available, my next cross will be the son (which is turning into a hell of a blood tracking dog) back to his mom to tighten up her genetics. Breed back to your best individual you are trying to reproduce... I'm no expert but that's the route I am taking...
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 07:29:11 pm » |
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Over the years with the bulldogs we did many many many of these breedings. You get your good with your bad know what I mean . It seemed like to me on most of these breedings alot were as good as the sire are dam but I cant remember any that were better than their Sire are Dam. If you are going to also use these for broodstock when you cross these dogs they seem to produce as well are better than the parents specially when you say breed one back to a cross that still has some of the family in there also . So in other words not a complete cross say the gyp u were going to breed was 3/4 cross with 1/4 of your family blood in there from one of the Father x Daughter breedings these turned out great some times real dogs. That would add a 1/8 of your family blood back into the pups with your father x daughter breeding in there see what am saying were it can connect to something .
The very best performace breedings we ever done was half bro x half sister you keep 50 percent of your blood in there and can have a half cross of the same cross blood are you can go a 1/4 of one cross and 1/4 of another cross . Great great performce breedings the half bro x half sister.
I was never sold on really high performace dogs coming out of Father x Daughter are Son to Mother they most the time came out avarage .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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Noah
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 08:15:42 pm » |
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Good thoughts, I do not intend to improve on anything... just preserve what they are until I can find an improving outcross.
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 08:21:39 pm » |
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As a matter of fact . Noah I been sitting here thinking back threw a lot of years in the bulldogs and of the 100's of Father x Daughter and Son x Mother breedings that I know were made not only by us but by many friends threw out the country. I cannot even think of one that made a mind breaking impact as a high performace type of dog.
That dont mean it cant happen but that will give you some true odds to go by if high performace in your sport is what you are seeking . Many a avarage performace dogs yes , elite performace dogs No . Some good brood dogs yes .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 08:22:53 pm » |
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Good thoughts, I do not intend to improve on anything... just preserve what they are until I can find an improving outcross.
O yeah if you are preserving go for it thats what it needs to be used for ! |
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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Noah
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 08:27:14 pm » |
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Defenitely what's on my mind, the guys I got my blood from are about out of dogs... when I hear them talk about "this type of dog you just can't find anymore"... makes me think...
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 08:34:49 pm » |
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Save it while you got it Noah ! It dont take but a second to loose it "Bad Hog" . Been there done that as am sure you have also . If you instints are telling you to do it dont wait do it !
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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BigCutters4
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 10:54:01 pm » |
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Agree 100% kick my self everyday for not preserving my old bloood
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M Bennet
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 11:14:59 pm » |
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i breed father to dghter / mother to son and brother to sister . i keep it tight. i also breed nieces to uncles. i have seen a little change in my dogs but not in there hunting. do it to keep the blood. coyotes breed brother an sister an look how smart they are,lol
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Monty Bennet
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TazD
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2013, 07:48:45 am » |
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Noah what you intend on doing happens in wild animals all the time and does not hurt the gene pool at all. Wild horses, the wolves in parks like Yellow stone, and other animals that are secluded, and limited in their numbers. I still think you could find dogs as good as the ones your hunting and maybe even better, but the choice is yours and what you have planned is fine!!
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Cajun
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2013, 08:56:42 am » |
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I have been breeding tight for generations occasionaly making a outcross. It works for me for consistancy. The bottum line, whether u linebreed, inbreed, or outcross, u still have to cull if u want to improve on what u have. If there was a proven way of breeding, we all would have top dogs by now. Here is the result of a 14 mo. old plott I have. He coldtrails & is extremely gritty. Unless he learns to back up, he will not live long. His mother is a uncle to neice cross, bred back to her father. Bayou Cajun Boss  |
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Bayou Cajun Plotts
Happiness is a empty dogbox
Relentless pursuit
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crackerc
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2013, 07:23:51 pm » |
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Noah the pups I have now are out of a half brother/half sister cross. I did it as the sire of the pups(Otis) is the last living male of my old blood before I got Monkey. Now as I have said before, I like Monkey, he has been a real good dog for me, but will be 9 years old in June. I have one son and two daughters of his here at the house so I didn't need more Monkey pups.
I bred this litter as JJ is 9 years old and Otis is 10 years old. If I wanted to keep my old blood I needed to do it pretty quick. I wanted a female pup, as I prefer females, so of course all the pups were males....go figure!
One thing I have found out though, if you have a good female you can about breed to any male. But you can have a real good male and not get anyone to breed to him. I don't breed my males to outside females...for many reasons......so I am limited on breeding my males to whatever females I own. But I think I am the exception. Course, if someone had a hard hunting hard baying one dog out kind of female...that I really really liked...I may reconsider. But it hasn't happened yet.......
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Florida cur dogs for almost half a century....now I know I am old!!
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Noah
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2013, 10:00:07 pm » |
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For the most part, Shiner and Whaler are EXCACTLY what I want in a dog. I have been scouring the earth to find something that I think would improve them(in my opinion mind you), and I am finally at a point that I do not want to lose what I have, waiting on what I want.
... so, inbreeding it is.
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2013, 10:15:55 pm » |
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Hell yeah man do it ! Is one of them the ones that got hurt on that last hunt you put up ? If it is I would get them bred like in a ASAP if it is .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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rdjustham
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2013, 10:18:24 pm » |
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If the gyp pup outta my jack dog keeps on like she is her daddy is gonna be her first boyfriend.  |
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Noah
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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 10:47:15 pm » |
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Hell yeah man do it ! Is one of them the ones that got hurt on that last hunt you put up ? If it is I would get them bred like in a ASAP if it is .
Yeah that's Whaler, his momma is Shiner. Both these dogs are what I would consider trophy dogs. Both can produce those hard to bay hogs consistently. Both are also always right on that edge of gettin' kilt because of this LOL... it is a fine line for sho |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Reuben
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2013, 03:18:00 am » |
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As a matter of fact . Noah I been sitting here thinking back threw a lot of years in the bulldogs and of the 100's of Father x Daughter and Son x Mother breedings that I know were made not only by us but by many friends threw out the country. I cannot even think of one that made a mind breaking impact as a high performace type of dog.
That dont mean it cant happen but that will give you some true odds to go by if high performace in your sport is what you are seeking . Many a avarage performace dogs yes , elite performace dogs No . Some good brood dogs yes .
I believe that linebreeding and inbreeding will clean up the gene pool pretty quickly...but we must be sure to pick the very best offspring to make it work or to just keep improving...the very best dog I ever had was an out cross...1/2 bmc and 1/2 mt. cur. I only bred this dog once because I knew he would not produce consistancy...but I bred one of his sons that was a very good hunting dog by 1 year old and I used him to breed to his daughter and grand daughters who were also his nieces etc. etc...and when I outcrossed I did that once in 20 years...I actually was going to do it twice with a very nice red florida cur but I didn't like the pups so I scratched that one. But I bred that outcross pup who had 50 percent of my bloodline in him, bred him back to another one of my dogs and that gave me 3/4 of my dogs line right away. I kept several of those because I wanted to freshen up the blood but with very little chances of changing the type of dogs I liked and kept...just a little outside blood...but I will say that the dogs I kept got better to the point that some were hunting too independently and some hunted too hard and actually would heat stroke because of no quit... TexasHogDogs is probably right...The ultimate dog might be an outcross and this great dog would be sought after for breeding for many years...but I bet his averages on his pups that would perform at a high level will be lower than that of a dog that is bred tight from a long line of above average dogs... to breed better dogs...one must truly know what a good to great dog really is...  and then you have the different opinions as to what a good dog is...  someone once said that breeding is like having a can of marbles with half of them one color, representing good traits and the other half a different color for the bad traits...once you remove the majority of the bad marbles then you can consistantly pull the marbles of the right color whether you take them out one at a time or 2 at a time... only one of the right color needs to be present if the other is a recessive... but 2 of the right color need to be drawn if dealing with recessive traits... so when the marbles start concentrating the right color then the chances of getting what you want will go way up... and that is basicly what happens when we line breed and inbreed... outcrossing, we can still get good dogs because of the law of averages...but the percentages will be a lot lower with equal amounts of each color of marbles in the can....and even lower percentages of good dogs if the can has a higher number of the wrong color of marbles... the bottom line for me is this...breed the best dogs available and keep them related...then we must select the best pups from them for breeding...otherwise it will lead to failure... this is how I see it and have done it this way...and yes...you can have a whole litter of good hunting dogs...just some better than others...but it won't happen until the 3rd or 4th generation and it won't always be 100 percent all the time but a high average of good dogs...outcross one time and those numbers will drop like a rock in a well...outcross on the sideline and purify it a little and slowly bring some of this blood in to the pack... I did it once this way but will not spend the money or time doing it again...I'll leave that to the youngsters with that burning desire... but will breed a few every now and then... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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bacon87
Hog Dog Pup
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Posts: 19
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2013, 09:07:09 am » |
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Accidentally had a dad latch on to his daughter. Dad is jam up and daughter is just about there. They have had two litters so far and both hunt great and didn't have any problems with the pups. Actually have had one that is still young but has struck several hogs and started when he was 8 months and is now 1 year. I have heard that father/daughter is the only acceptable breading though. That's just what i heard and really in the end you could have two great dogs and just get crap pups. you never know.
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crackae11
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2013, 10:02:21 am » |
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i will be hopefully doing a linbreed next year when my pup show more of what hes up to hes turnin out for the best so he keeps it up hes getting bred to momma both gritty trail bay dogs want more same trait less ab blood lil some pups came a little catchy for my taste
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Cowboy Up !
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