Fla Cracker God Shines

[TexasHogDogs]

Thank yall.  Boy I sure hope he can produce as good as he looks he is sure being bred to some jam up gyps.  I bet he will.  He's a ruff sucker but smart so far from what I have seen .  We were talking here the other nite every hunt that he has been on now were he was at the hog and some big ones bout 240 biggest so far he has been on and it has not been no running of course he has plenty of good help cause my dogs will pile in soon as one catches .  Mine will catch what they can but if its to rank they will back off a tad and try to hold it till we get there but so far with him its been lights out just hope he will back off some if we get on a really really rank one  .

[Rooster79]

Some will be kamikazes till they die and some will back off eventually. Is he natural bobtail?

[TexasHogDogs]

Yes natural bob tail .

[Rooster79]

I think I have bred the bobtail out of my dogs, haven't had any the last few litters. Like a fool I let kin and friends have pick of litter and the bobs were first to go. It doesn't really matter to me it just gives them a unique look.

[Florida Curdog]

Looking good

[TexasHogDogs]

Man you talk about some chuckle headed pups here is a picture of one the pups now they all look alike .  11 days old .

[Lance]

They sure look good !

[T-Bob Parker]

That sire sure is a heavy boned dog, even his feet look pretty swampy, Itll be cool to see if the finer boned running cur pulls thru in some of these pups. Have you seen much bottom out of the cracker dog yet or has it not been necessary?

Bear in mind I ain't criticizing not in the least, I think you did a pretty cool experiment and look forward to your stories and evaluations in the future.

[TexasHogDogs]

Well so far on all the hunts he has been on I aint got to see his bottom yet because all the hogs have been stopped and caught so far .  But you know how that goes sooner are later somebody is gonna take a real asswhipping and the hog is going to bolt .  So as of yet aint got to see how big his bottom is .  Aint got to see it  yet T-Bob am sure am going to sooner are later know what I mean .

[TexasHogDogs]

The only negative I have seen so far but it really is not a negative is .  This dog breaths heavy and dose not seem to have the real wind that my dogs have but you have to realize this dog is heavy heavy Partin bred plus to boot he is a Father x Daughter breeding and he was in no kind of running shape when I got him .  He is just now starting to get into some kind of running shape but I think the heavy breathing is coming from his heavy breeding thats what I was saying about father daughter breedings when they are already heavy bred you will start to see these kind of things .  Another thing he excerts so much energy into stopping the hog could be part of it also .  Either way with the big crosses to my main gyps all that should and will be taken care of.  I got a feeling it has to with how heavy he is bred and then inbred again on the Daddy x Daughter.  This is why I was never much on those kinds of breedings unless used to help save your bloodline there are other ways around it .

[TazD]

What does being Partin bred have to do with his wind? All Florida Curs I have owned can run 15-20 miles on a hunt regardless of how hot it is. It's more because your dog is out of shape probably. My male is from Hobby Campbell and his family has traded dogs back and forth with the Partins for generations. My male Zipper will run all day and is a very fast agile dog. Remember these dogs are bred to work rogue cattle in the hot swamps of Florida all day.                                                                                                                                             
Some Morgan bred Florida Curs I have owned had the heavy, raspy breathing, but they seem to have had a lot of bulldog traits to them.

[TexasHogDogs]

Partin bred has noting to do with it,    its him being a Father x Daughter bred being tight bredl like that sometimes will start to effect the wind, air . 

I hope you are right .  We will see as the summer come on .

[TexasHogDogs]

I guess I should say it like this being Partin bred .

He is heavy Partin bred and not being that big of a family of dogs .  I would assume that a lot of the dogs are Kin to begin in his ped when you get in the backend of his pedigree,  then you take and  do a father x daguther breeding you are stacking a lot of same dogs in the backend of the pedigree.  In other words a lot of dogs in the front end of the pedigree may not look like are seem to be kin but when you trace them back they really all go back to the same dogs then him being a Daddy x Daughter breeding you just double all of it again and there is were the wind and air troubles begin in a lot of lines of dogs . 

[TazD]

There are a lot of old timers that have a saying. What's the difference between line breeding and in breeding?? Line breeding did not work. There a lot of serious dog hunters that in breed, as well as wild animals, with no ill effect on the animals. I am sure the Partins llke all the other ranchers, when they saw another animal that was a good dog with the qualities they liked they would get a dog or breed to it. People put to much stock in the Partin dogs like their the best Florida Cur around. There a lot of good Fl Curs on all the ranches in Florida. I have seen and heard of quite a few Partin dogs not being all that special. You also have to remember, there a lot of good story tellers that have Florida Curs that are average dogs at best, but they become legends because of the good stories they told!! Or they are owned by people who have hunted Florida Curs for 30-40yrs like that makes their dogs better!!!! LMAO

[TexasHogDogs]

Ya know I could care less if this dog is Partin are Fla Cur.  I never knew the difference and never owned one are the other .  All I know is this dog here is a good one and getting better with every hunt picked it up quick and has stopped some pretty dang good hogs for no more than what he knows.   I can also tell you one thing you might be surprised at the old timers that will tell you a crock of number 2 that there dogs are inbred out the ass and still performing like Mike Tyson  but I can promise you if you was not standing there to witness every breeding they done and the dogs are shown inbred threw the ass on paper then that old timer is lieing his ass off there is a cross in them dogs some were .  I know lots of old timers and breeders of dogs and if they get a line that has a name they are all gonna do the same thing they are gonna try and hammer that blood line to death .   They are gonna tell you one thing and do another to keep there name and their line up .  They gonna tell you that champion is 25 times off of ole Crowin Rooster there main stud dog are some dog they are promoteing  when in fact he is proably two off ole Crowin Rooster and got a cross in him .  So dont be surprised if some of them old timers you know are lieing there asses off about there dogs being inbred out the ass and performing like a out crossed dog.  I have been threw this over and over and over and I can tell you one thing number 2 stinks and if you are smelling it guess what there is number 2 there some were .  Heavy inbred dogs and I do mean heavy cannot perform like crosses can there may be a very very few that can but they are one in 500 .  I know famous breeders that did just what I said up there and they do it to keep the public off base and never knowing just what is what this is how they keep there lines going on and on and on when common sense and gentics and science tell a whole different story.  They may fool some youngens but they will not fool somebody that has been there seen it and done it .

[TexasHogDogs]

Somebody want to test it go do it .

  Take your best family bred male breed him to a family bred gyp..............Then get a female daughter pup out of that and breed it back to him ............Then get a female pup out of that and breed it back to him again this will make your pups 97.5 percent your main male the daddy this is called triple inbred .  We have done it way more than once trying to make it work on totaly different familys of dogs not just one .

Watch what happens.

The first one should be good.

The next Daddy x Daughter proably still be fair so so .  Might loose some size start to loose some air staminia .

The next one ,  the size is gonna be way down,  most likley the air is gonna be effected the staminia ,  some of the quickness and some of the fast is gonna be out of your dog .  The the underbite is gonna start , the dog is not going to heal as fast and he is going to start to be prone to sickness as a young dog he will get sicker faster than most.  He is not going to be able to cool himself down as quick and more prone to heat stress and the list goes on .  Done it seen it .  I have tired to work these kinds of dogs the heart is there but the tools aint !

The only thing that is going to stay the same and maybe increase is the hunt and determination of the dog but by doing this he is looseing his tools to do his job effectivly .

Then if you take one of these dogs and go back into the family again with no cross Ha just go do it and let me know how it turns out .  I dont believe a thing a person says about a heavy inbred dog unless I was there to witness all the breedings.  Your percentages go down when you dont know when to stop . 

[Rooster79]

I know what you mean on that inbreeding to death. The under bites will be awful, heck I seen some dogs so bad inbred that they had seizures when it thundered. The good thing about having a very large family in that we all have dogs that we can breed to and pass pups back and forth. The dogs are all close kin but not so close that it causes these types of problems. I have some cousins though that tried to take it as far as you could go. 30 of my 34 years of having my own dogs I have never went outside of the family to breed or get a pup.

[TexasHogDogs]

Yup!  Sensible inbreeding and doing it with a purpose is great and knowing how to use it .  Most inbreeding is done to produce brood stock to instill the great genes the family as to offer but it has to be culled and culled hard are else you are shooting yourself in the foot .  Then doing a full cross are a semi cross maybe a 1/4 cross with a 1/4 of the family blood just to test and see how much cross the tight bred family dog needs to really really produce great dogs .  Also to know which lines to cross to is a big deal .  Some lines and I suspect the Partin line at one time was crossed upon a family of dogs maybe years and years ago and it worked great and was  used sparely and weaved in and out keeping the main Partin blood heavy and the cross light and I bet over time this was done so much that really the two family's of dogs like the Partin dogs and what ever they used really became kinda one family of dogs over time .  A man can do this for years on end before any ill effect start to take place because the two lines were at first a cross and over time became really one big family .


Inbreeding for brood stock Yeah and knowing how to use it Yeah !  Inbreeding with no outs to try and increase your dogs Performance No!

I ve seen breedings breed daddy to daughter five six times trying to reproduce a dog in the back ground and I have seen it work a time are two but man the culling and the culls are unreal .  The thought on this was at one time if you inbred long enuff on one dog and concentrating on one dog in his heritage that over time if the dog was in the back of the pedigree so many times that over time the blood would reverse itself and you could produce dogs just like what was at the back of the pedigree six seven even eight nine gens back just depending on which dog in the ped you were concentrating on .

Its crazy man ,  Have I seen it work yes once are twice  but many many years was wasted and many many dogs culled just trying to get maybe one are two .

[Rooster79]

You know what your talkin about. I just wish I would have questioned my granddaddy and the rest of the old timers about these dogs while they were still around. Being young, it didn't matter to me. I had good dogs and never thought to question how exactly they came to be. Dad just says you bred yours to each other, and to your daddy's dogs, and grand daddy's, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, great uncles, great aunts, first second and third cousins. And swap pups with all of them from time to time. Do all this for a couple hundred years, and you get what you got

[TexasHogDogs]

Here is you some food for thought.  This is long but if might help some that want to be breeders one day from my experience and my ole bulldog Buddy's experiences !

If you take a family of good dogs and you are hell bent on making it as pure as pure can be and you do your culling and lets say your line is just gawd awful time I mean tight tight .  

This is what I have seen.

This man takes this family that I was talking about so tight and he finally figures its time to out cross.  Now he done his tight family right he culled hard so here he goes.  He does a cross and a hard hard cross were there is no kin in the Sire and Dam.  Well out comes the pups .   He is ecstatic because he just knows this is hybrid vigor from hell coming out of this liter the pure straight cross.  Well his pups get up now 18 months old and some have some under bite some are not really fast some are even kinda slow the hunt is there the air is not what it should be for the cross he made .

Now he is scratching his head what the hell man ?

So he takes his tight family and he makes another cross to a different family this time figuring the first cross did not work now two years has gone by and he still has noting to show .  OK does his cross same thing the pups get on up to 18 months and by Gawd the dogs are still showing the same some still have some under bite some are slow some don't have the air they are just not what they should be for a pure straight cross on his tight tight tight family of great dogs .

Well now he is scratching his head and his ass ahahhahahahah LOL !

Whooooo he just cannot figure it out what the hell now almost four years has gone by and he still does not have a damn thing to show for all this hard work .

What do you do ??  He thinks !  He done scratched his head bald and his ass raw staying up all hours of the day and nite .

Well he says its just has to be am not hitting the right cross so he does it again with a different cross of a totally different family of dogs than the first two .  What happens ?  LOL same damn thing and now the man is in doubt about his family of dogs he is thinking this family just is not working something is wrong with it and then he does the big NO NO !   He Chit cans the whole Chittin Caboodle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What did he do wrong ?

Well here we go !  First off he bred his great family of dogs way way way to damn tight just unnecessary just inexperience!  

Here is what happens .  Once you get a family as tight as he bred his and I do mean pure to no ends pure pure pure and yeah he culled culled culled .  

But what he did not realize is . Is when you breed a family so tight like that and when you go and do a totally out cross even tho the two dogs are no kin at all .  The mans family dog is so damn tight and so compact with his gene pool so when he done his out the outside cross blood was completely overridden by his inbred tight tight tight bloodline.  The cross did do a damn thing noting nota !!!!!!!!  His family blood was so potent the cross blood was just completely inaliated !   Even tho on paper it shows to be a complete cross in real life and it was still a bunch of inbred dogs !!!!!!!!!  The paper don't mean Jack people .  So now what he should have done was take them dogs from his cross he done and put another cross in it and now in this liter the dogs start to show a little vigor they are a little better and then take those pups and cross them again and guess what ?  It took the three crosses to cut his tight tight condensed potent  family blood down to 50 % why because they were so heavily inbred and  even tho the very first breeding he done on paper was suppose to be the 50/50  in real life it was still 100% his family blood !  It was not till the third out cross did he ever get the real 50/50 blood.

So all in all , the more potent inbred your family of dogs is the more crosses it will take to get them to the 50/50 mark .

Thats why paper is for wiping your butt with ain't no book gonna tell you this but seeing it done and going threw it will set you free !  I know a man that this exact same thing I just said happened to him.