Tournaments, lies, cheats, lawsuits and failed polys!!!

[T-Bob Parker]

If you think a person can beat a lie detector ....you lost you mind.  I can Gurantee the person who won the tdha tournament didn't cheat. He has better dogs than 99% and yes probably better places and knows how to hunt a place to win.

Every person on this forum has the same opportunity as the next person. I won the tdha tournament an d didn't need a barr or to cheat to win. Ive caught one barr in my life. Believing a person can only win a contest by cheating is ignorant. There are plenty of excellent dogs, hunters and educated circumstances that play into such.

I live in the hill country...even my dumba$$ is smart enough to know I must hunt east in farm country to compete. I also understand I must change hunting methods in order to be successful. Thinking everyone who wins...cheats...is making and uneducated assumption. Take your dogs and go hunt with Cole McVeay...you will be humbled.

I'm too &$@ Da&@ mad to say much of anything at this point that would be helpful, productive or beneficial to anyone. So with that, I'll say, thank you mr Rex, you are on point exactly.

[collars and cutters kennels]

Hello fellas my name is Matt Noviskie I live here in Bellville, been hunting now for 12 years I have a good set of dogs I would think. I know this whole Barr thing has got out of control . I have talk to some guys that hunt for Barr s I see where they are coming from, it is tough both ways. Down here where I'm from I hunt for farmers, hay fields, rice fields , and cattle country, all hogs I catch either come out alive and sold to my buyer or dead ! I do have tons of great land to hunt. I work for the local electric coop so when I puttin power to these big places I sure am trying to find another good place to hunt. I am thank ful for all the places I have to hunt. I do understand about how all the fellas that are hunting the Barr country it's tough going out their hunting all day and you come up with Barr hogs and can't turn them in. I do understand that.... I wish I could catch a good Barr hog one day, but it's also hard for us guys down here to catch anything close to compare to a good Barr, I know a lot of folks that don't hunt contest for that reason and they have jam up dogs...  I think we all have good dogs or else we would not be on this site. This year I hunted a lot contest because I was in Josh's trail... I lost to cole by 10 lbs fair and square for hog dogger of the year. It was a lot of work but lots of fun. I met cole Sunday and a very nice guy he is. I also met Van Dorn he also a very nice guy, them boys just have good dogs and they hunt their a$$ off just like I do. My team and I did great this year, we didn't get first in any contest but we did get 2nd in fatboys contest 3rd in east Texas round up and 2nd in Tdha. I am a honest guy and I can truly say me and my team hunted by the rules and won by the rules. We passed all poly test in our contest that we entered. The only thing that kept me from winning the Tdha contest is that one good Barr cole turned in.. It made me sick but he won by the rules.... The east texas round up we also lost by barr hogs but my team and i took it and were very happy with 3rd place. Out of all contest tdha is the one I wanted to take first.. It will be tough for my team to take first with Barr hogs but I will keep trying. The last thing is let's all stick together this sport is very important to all of us so we have to get along to keep doing this great sport!!!!! I would like meet more of yal, I do understand both sides with Barr hogs but Im not one to fight about it.. I'm here to make friends and hope to hunt with alot of you one day.

[Jared H.]

Much respect to ya for that post Matt.

[collars and cutters kennels]

Thank you sir!!!!

[Bump]

Good post Matt

[charles]

Poly tests CAN be fooled, u just hav to be very good at lying and convensing to the machine. Iv knowingly lied and passed the test 2x, and before u say the admin didnt know what he was doing, MULE FRITTERS, he knew his stuff. most can be beatn, BP and heart rate can be manipulated to give false readings

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Hog hunting contests have pop up all over Texas in the last few years. Everyone seams to think that it easy to put one on and make some money for themselves or for a good cause. Its not easy, that's a fact, and its not something that can be done without a great deal of thought and planning.

Well written rules are a must. Good management is a must. A top quality poly-graph is a must.

A contest lacking in any, or all, of the above is a disaster waiting to happen.

A poor quality poly-graph is worse than no poly-graph at all. That's why the TDHA pays a great deal of money for the best poly-graph man money can hire. And also why the TDHA spends so much time on writing rules.

A poor quality poly-graph coupled with poor contest management and/or rules is going to be a problem. Good honest men may have their honesty questioned when they have done nothing wrong. Others who have broken rules are not caught because the right questions were not asked.

There are quite a few hunters on this board that have taken the poly-graph at the TDHA hunt with Capt. John Slator or his staff. I am sure they can tell everyone what it is like,  and that there is never any question about whether or not a winning team played by the rules.

If you have taken a poly-graph at the TDHA hunt post up on this thread and tell everyone your thoughts on the quality of the TDHA poly-graph as compared to others.

Thanks,
Paul T

[dub]

Well even by the rules some people have an advantage. I have hunted with people that have called the dogs off to leave the pigs for a tournament. I know people that have avoided hunting a spot to save the whole spot for a tournament. Now there ain'y nothing wrong with that and I am not complaining about it. But if I have a place with a big hog I have to have that hog gone fast. I don't have any place I can leave a pig. As far as the land owners go it is better if I go hunt and don't catch anything because if I am catching hogs they have a problem. Because this is what I have I don't even waste time with a tournament. Now if I had those places I would do the same thing and enter.

Now do some people cheat? Of course they do and that I don't like. But having barrs you still have to go catch them. To me it is like going drag rcing with my diesel truck. The gas engine will beat me everytime so I don't race them. Congrats to the winners except those that cheated. You and God know if you cheated and I don't care.

[cward]

I will say this I like everyone one of those guys who failed.at gator country. I see it is a rule is a rule. I have spoken to one of them about this im not running them down they did fail and the rule states no exception They took another polygraph test at the tdha and passed. Here is what I see about this. The trail of tears tournament leader was on the team that failed at gator country then he gives another at tdha to say they past. So one says they failed one says they passed damn lieing a$$ polygraph. Like I said I will be happy to shake anyone of these boys hands on that team that failed. I will stand behind what i say and will not run from it. The trail of tears organization is who stoped the barrs from being in the contest and he has had this bullchit happened in his competion. He did it to try and make it fair. But when his team fails the polygraph at gator country he gives them another and says they pass. Bump explain this to me if you don't mind.

[Bump]

I will say this I like everyone one of those guys who failed.at gator country. I see it is a rule is a rule. I have spoken to one of them about this im not running them down they did fail and the rule states no exception They took another polygraph test at the tdha and passed. Here is what I see about this. The trail of tears tournament leader was on the team that failed at gator country then he gives another at tdha to say they past. So one says they failed one says they passed damn lieing a$$ polygraph. Like I said I will be happy to shake anyone of these boys hands on that team that failed. I will stand behind what i say and will not run from it. The trail of tears organization is who stoped the barrs from being in the contest and he has had this bullchit happened in his competion. He did it to try and make it fair. But when his team fails the polygraph at gator country he gives them another and says they pass. Bump explain this to me if you don't mind.

Im not understanding the question? If it is beating a polygraph...It is my belief a person cannot go in and pass a polygraph that knowingly cheated or manipulate the outcome because they have some trick.

My previous comments on this discussion were directed at people who believe the teams winning or doing well in tournaments simply have better hunting places but not good dogs....and or they cheat to win. I agree good places are part of winning but my defense was people like yourself, Cole, Richard etc have better dogs than most and are winning or doing well because they have good dogs and know how to hunt.

If you are talking about who passed and failed a polygraph at gator country...I do not have any first hand knowledge. All I know is hearsay from others. Failed polygraphs and handling of the winnings is a whole other topic....but I feel that should fall on the integrity of the tournament and those who run them....not undermining the people who hunt and win honestly.

[matthewrbarnard]

The coment about stocked hogs is dead on and I know this from the mouth of someone that has hunted these turnys. Barrs are stocked hogs once cutt they will stay around food right or wrong it is the truth.  I dont hunt the contests but some times wish I did but barrs keepe from entering as I have never caught one and dought I will places I hunt if I cut a hog loose I might as well kiss that placegoodby

X100!

[jhy]

You can not beat a poly if it is administered by a true professional.

you can not make wildlife stay put in one spot and wait on you to come catch it.

All you can really do for a hunt is get your dogs lined out and hope that the hogs will be there and that you will get on the big ones and to do that you have to catch a bunch of small ones too most of the time.

These hunts are usually for fund raisers so get out and support them because the money goes to a good cause.  It makes me sick to see folks judging all tournaments based on a couple of isolated instances.  All I have heard is a bunch of whining as to why you cant win, and with that attitude you will never win anything so go out and give it a shot.  I promise you will have a great time even if you do not win.

Just to be clear, you dont have to bring in a trailer full of hogs to win a hunt.  For instance the Pretty Creek Hunt and The Randy Bumpur's Hunt had several different holes for you to compete for because not everyone has the dog power to catch 25-35 hogs in a weekend, to win the biggest stringer or heaviest 10 but I think we all have the dog power to catch 3 good hogs or a BIG BOAR.

Please remember the whole reason behind these hunts that the TDHA, Cole McVeay, Gary Wyche, BSDHA, etc. put on.  It always is for a good cause such as scholarships, feeding the hungry, 4H sports, and fighting for your rights to hunt with dogs.  That should be enough for you all to get out there and have a good time and compete.  I can assure that cheaters will be caught and promptly diqualified at any of these events run by these organizations.

Looking forward to seeing everyone at the Randy Bumpur's, a tournament I really dont have a chance to win but I love the competition and it is a blast to hunt and who knows I may get lucky one day and win it but I certainly wont win anything if I am not hunting in it.

[Lance]

   I was going to comment on this topic last night but realized that I had a couple to many Shiner Bocks in my system to be giving my opinion on such a touchy subject !

   I was the sacrifical lamb last year for my team in the Fatboy Outfitters Tournament so I know what it is like to sit there sweating bullets over a polygraph test. I was not nervous because I was lying or because my team had cheated. I was nervous because I had no prior experience with polygraph tests and I was worried about a MACHINE that was operated by a person that I did'nt know making a mistake and making me look like a liar to everyone and I would be the only person who knew I was'nt lying. I can see with some of the questions that are asked how a person could fail and still believe they are telling the truth. I don't agree with the " did you break any Texas game laws" question. It is to vague and leaves to much room for error. Also a simple mistake like letting my son lead the catchdog back to the wheeler out of sheer habit could get you disqualified in some tournaments. I have a couple dogs that a friend and I are partners in and I worry about hunting those dogs unless he's there because it could possibly cost me on the Poly test and according to my kids I don't even own a dog, they own them all, so it's possible that that could get me . I have places to hunt that are high fenced on one or two sides and barb wire on the other sides and I don't hunt them for a tournament but sometimes you will end up on them with a bad runner that you struck on a property that is close to them and that could possibly get me on the high fence rule. Call me paranoid or a worry wart if you want to but my word and good name are all that I own, the bank and the Government own everything else, and I believe that if a tournament organizer is going to put a hunters integrity and good name on the line with a polygraph test then they owe it to the hunters to be very specific with their questions and to hire the best polygraph firm that money can buy! I will never intentionally cheat to win a hunting tournament, I value my own integrity to much for that. Trespassing to get my dogs or some stupid little mistake like I explained above might get me but not purposefully cheating. If that does happen then I will explain what might have happened to throw up a red flag and pleade my case but if they decide to DQ me and I do'nt sense anything fishy or that their playing favorites for the next team in line then I will regretfully hand over my prizes. And if anyone wants to call me a liar to my face then we can roll around in the rocks for a few minutes but I would never threaten to bring a lawyer in on a hog hunting tournament, that's ridiculous! I don't know wether it is possible to beat a poly graph but I do believe you could fail it and not know why.

    I think that everyone should have to play by the same set of rules and those rules should be enforced the same for every team regardless of personal relationships. Don't have a polygraph test if your not going to enforce it and any decisions that have to be made should be made then and there. The worst thing an organizer can do is give the hunters that participate a reason to lose confidence in the validity of their tournament or tournament series.

Disclaimer: I was perfectly sober when I wrote this so if you don't like my opinion then blame it on the lack of my blood alcohol level ! Ask me again after 10:00 p.m. and you might get a more interesting answer !

[Circle C]

Lance,

      I feel like you do, in that what does a man have, if he doesn't have his good name...

   

[jhy]

Lance,

That is a very good point, and a very valid one.  I have the same fears about the polygraph and I am not so sure that something like this did not happen to the fellas who failed the poly and that is why I wish they would explain because I have stated several times that I just do not believe that someone would "Intentionally Cheat" when they know there is a polygraph test and that their reputation is at stake.  The fact that the parties involved have not explained to us, that I am aware of, or made a final decision on the tournaments makes things look a lot worse than they probably truly are and now it is starting to hurt all the tournaments.

Whoever was in charge of these tournaments that the polygraph was failed should have talked to the polygraph guy to find out exactly what question he or she failed and then have them explain what happened and if it was something silly like my dogs got onto private property and I had to go get them and catch the hog then make the call there on the spot if he should DQ them or not.  Same goes for the scenario with your Son walking the Catch dog.  I do not think anyone would fault that at all and if they did shame on them.  Point being they need to be decisive no matter what there decision is and stick to it.

If it is a highly trained polygraph man, like the one they will have at the Randy Bumpurs Tournament, then nobody will have anything to worry about.  He has helped write laws about polygraph's and even put Federal Judges in jail with his ability.  He is very good about getting you to relax and far away from the crowd so there is no pressure.

Joey

[JLH]

The same with all hunting sports. A judge with guidelines. One of the biggest rackets around is coon hunting and they use judges.

[brad s]

Just curious. I never hunted a tourney but I wanted to couple wks ago but did not have the chance. Ok the rules say no alcahol before poly? That would dq me right there bc when I get done huntin I like to drink beer. And I would be nervous if I had to take one and would need a few beer to calm my nerves

[TexasHogDogs]

Why don't everybody just have a judge go with them?   That would fair it all up and is better than a Polly graph.  I can tell you about those things I worked for a company in Deer Park Texas that we had to take them once twice a year and every one of them I have ever taken they have come back and said they are inconclusive that they could not read one on me to tell were I was lying are telling the truth they could not tell !  I don't trust-em and wont do them period .

[halfbreed]

  brad alcohal or being hungover , high blood pressure are just a few of the things that will cause a bad result on a polygraph . 

[jhy]

Judges can be bought and plus it is hard to haul a stranger around and expect them to keep up with you for two days especially if you are traveling, staying in a hotels or sleeping in the truck.