Starting pups

[Steven M.]

How old do y'all start y'all's pups? I started my first ones at six months but can you start them
Earlier and if you do does it give them a head start or make them better dogs?

[Muddogkennels]

bay on a caged hog for a month. then put them in a pen with the hog.

[halfbreed]

   hog hide drags when they are old enough to move around good . start slow and short drags at around 2.5 to 3 months old  . between 3 and six months a good long drag with a shoat in a cage . by the time they are 8 to 9 months old they already know the ropes and are well on their way to becoming hog dogs . when they are agile enough to be able to get away from a hog when needed a few trips to the bay pen .

[KevinN]

   hog hide drags when they are old enough to move around good . start slow and short drags at around 2.5 to 3 months old  . between 3 and six months a good long drag with a shoat in a cage . by the time they are 8 to 9 months old they already know the ropes and are well on their way to becoming hog dogs . when they are agile enough to be able to get away from a hog when needed a few trips to the bay pen .

X2

[JRyanS]

When youngest was a pup, say about 5-6 months we put her in a pen and she hid from the hog so I just started running her in the woods with the other dogs. Now she gets out and hunts (hasn't found any yet) and flies to the bay and helps catch. She's about 1 now.

[T-Bob Parker]

All that advice is good stuff and I don't reckon it can hurt anything really, but the way I choose to do it is to just let puppies be puppies till they get enough physical and mental maturity to handle what I'm fixing to ask of them, then Ive been leaving them put up in the truck or ATV/utv until a bay, once the big dogs have one bayed, you feed the pups into it and let them be part of the excitement. Mostly at first they'll bay then wanna dick around after that, if they just screw around, dont get mad, just put them back up, eventually after a bay you'll see a difference in their demeanor and they will appear fully confident and hopefully (for my prejudice anyway) they'll roll out once the hogs cuaght and go to hunting for tracks to run. This is when I personally know a pup has become a dog and is ready to get the freedom of hunting from the outset.

It ain't the only way, but it's my favorite way.

[KevinN]

Nicely put T-Bob

[T-Bob Parker]

Thanks.

I would also like to ask, NOT in a smartass way, but from an attitude of confusion And maybe a little naivety, what would one hope to accomplish by letting pups bark at a hog in a roll cage?

I seen coon hunters do it forever, and I'm seein more and more folks doing that on Facebook, and like I said, I'm not being a smart ass, but I don't see why if your gonna let a dog bark at a hog in a pen, why wouldn't you want them to get a peice?

[KevinN]

My thoughts on that....more control. I don't use a cage...just a bay pen....but with very small shoats. I make it impossible for the pup to get wrecked the first few times I put them on a pig. It will set them back bad if they get wrecked.

T-Bob, I just think it really gets the pups hog crazy at an early age when you start them at like 12-16 weeks. If nothing else it just gives me something to do that I enjoy and a little interaction/bonding time with the pups. One thing I do know, for a FACT, it doesn't hurt the pups. I've always done it this way and never had any issues, lol.

But..you know...to each his own. Whatever works.

[cantexduck]

 I hate messing with hogs around the house. I refuse to keep shoats at the house, just a pain in the butt to me. I like to do like T-Bob said above. Right or wrong, I dont know. I have done some liver drags and such for very young dogs though around the yard. But for the most part I just feed them and let them run around the yard with the big dogs until I feel they are old enough to go on a hunt, then I just wait for a bay. For the first few times I like to make sure it is not a real big hog.
  In the past I have use a pen a little but I am not fond of using them at all.

[UNDERDOG]

Too me .......I don't want to have to work too hard to make a dog,I would rather have to hold one back from it's self than have to "Make one" !!! if I have to work too hard to make a dog a dog I would rather start over. I like sorta like T bob and Savoy said myself as well.

[Kid7]

ONE mock hunt. Drag a tied hog through the woods about 100 yds then let him up and tie his bk leg to a tree so he's staked out. Let them find him and bay him then turn him loose and let them chase him and bay him. Then to the woods with the big dogs.

[halfbreed]

  lol well I am an old coon hunter  lol   and when I started this hog hunting thang I didn't know nary a hog dogger . but I knew the only difference was the game being hunted  .  I use the caged pig at the end as a reward and excitement for following a trail to it's end . I am talking about 2.5 to 3 month old pups trailing a track thru  all sorts of obstacles . and no need to risk getting young dogs or young pigs hurt . I can use the same shoat time and time again mainly  . then when the pups get proficient at the game I will let them find it and tie the pups back and release the pig into the wide open yonder and wait 30 minutes or so then let the pups go . I love laying drags and watching witch pups line it out and find it after I put a big skip in the track . and I have had pups as young as 3.5 months old bay up wild pigs that I didn't know were their while on a training exercise . just a lot of fun for me and an old family tradition . me and my little brother laid more trails for my granpaw than I care to remember just teaches a young dog the ropes a lot sooner than the wait and run with other dogs method .  by the time you turn them out with the big dogs they already know what's to be expected  .

[UNDERDOG]

Same goes with tree dogs HB, if they aren't trying to tree on there own in the yard by 6-8 months old I have found IMO you end up having to make that dog a dog vs him making a dog on his own.

[Reuben]

I like natural hunting dogs and a little training here and there helps the pup learn what game you want...it doesn't need to be much but like halfbreed said...you will know which pup is born with it...

[halfbreed]

   I don't think you get it  . you are not trying to   '''make'' a dog these exercise are only allowing a dog to do what they are naturally gong to do . just starting at a much younger age and in a controlled setting . if the dog ain't got it it ain't gonna get it no matter what you do or how young you start them . i have done both the waiting till their old enough to keep up and starting them as pups , some from the same litter . but the pups with early training were out hunting with the big dogs while the ones held back were still figuring it out . but in the end both made dogs . i  just get a lot of enjoyment with messing with pups from a young age and either way is fine if you wanna wait , call me impatient  lol when i was on the farm i never penned pups till i would get tired of hollering at them to leave the cows alone and to quit terrorizing the barn cats that is them training themselves in an uncontrolled setting  when they started getting gamey like that it is time to start having them focus on the intended target animal in a controlled setting , and it works well for me  heck i got nothing but time anymore  .

[UNDERDOG]

  I don't think you get it  .

Actually...I get it alot more than you think, have had top comp. coon,Sq and rabbit dogs and do very much get it. Problem is I want the best with natural abillity and I DON'T have the extra time for all the little training exercises. I want the best, natural dog I can get that I don't have to baby or coax along. I want to hunt with them, not play.

[KevinN]

  I don't think you get it  .

Actually...I get it alot more than you think, have had top comp. coon,Sq and rabbit dogs and do very much get it. Problem is I want the best with natural abillity and I DON'T have the extra time for all the little training exercises. I want the best, natural dog I can get that I don't have to baby or coax along. I want to hunt with them, not play.

So..if you raise a few pups from a litter...you don't do anything at all until they are old enough to hunt?

If the rule is...even out of jam up sire and dam, all pups won't make dogs....haven't you wasted a lot of time or at least feed money on the pups that don't make?

A few simple runs will let you select the pups that show that natural talent.

I believe that's what Roberts getting at...that's what I think anyway.

[T-Bob Parker]

  I don't think you get it  .

Actually...I get it alot more than you think, have had top comp. coon,Sq and rabbit dogs and do very much get it. Problem is I want the best with natural abillity and I DON'T have the extra time for all the little training exercises. I want the best, natural dog I can get that I don't have to baby or coax along. I want to hunt with them, not play.

So..if you raise a few pups from a litter...you don't do anything at all until they are old enough to hunt?

If the rule is...even out of jam up sire and dam, all pups won't make dogs....haven't you wasted a lot of time or at least feed money on the pups that don't make?

A few simple runs will let you select the pups that show that natural talent.

I believe that's what Roberts getting at...that's what I think anyway.

I will say I respectfully disagree Kevin, a few simple traing excersizes will show you which pups want to bark at hog in a box (or in a pen) I won't speak for Bryant, but im not after a dog who will bark at a hog real fast and loud. It's just different styles is all, but barking at a hog doesn't show me who's gonna hunt, just who wants to play the current game your askin them to play.

I personally figure, if baypens and training exercises made (or showed) good dogs, then all the youngns on here who are always asking to buy pigs and constantly foolilng with 8 week old puppies and hog drag, shoats and so on would have the top notch dogs around. more often than not, that's not the case.
Yeah, our way may "waste" some feed, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm only getting pups from people who's dogs are much much much better than mine, so if the pup doesn't grow out to be as good as their top dogs, it'll still have a great chance of being good to me.

(Along with that, that is the reason I actual real cull. If even I think they ain't up to snuff, I don't want anybody else to have them to breed up dogs who may end up better than mine, AND the types of guys who I get pups from expect me to live by the gentlemanly ways.)

[T-Bob Parker]

Again, that's all said with all due respect, this subject seems to hurt peoples feelings real fast and easy.

Also I'm not saying I'm against using a bay pen at all, I just don't personally like it for me.