Build me a heat tolerant dog

[Circle C]

Couple of dogs we have been hunting lately don't seem effected much by the heat, I've been curious if it's their body type that makes them this way as much as their conditioning. They typically cover 25 miles per hunt on the garmin, and have yet to show any signs of being too hot. Even in 90+ temps and mile+ races.

I would like to know how you would "spec out" a dog built to handle the heat. Long legs? long wide muzzle? deep chest?     I am interested to see if the dogs I am referring to look like what y'all end up describing.

[elliscountyhog]

Legs, and DEEP chest.  I have seen a couple dogs like you describe, one of them was rocky which was a dog that i breed out of a 1/2 plott and bmc to a 3/4 plott 1/4 pitt, and he had the small frame of a pit and a chest and head of a plott and unless u simply made him stop he wouldnt. No matter what he is always running and busy and his toungue would never hang out like he just started hunting

[Scott]

IMO phenotype only carries a dog so far. Some dogs just have natural wind, and some don't...while still having the same phenotype. If it was as easy as phenotype, this discussion probably wouldn't be taking place...

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

They typically cover 25 miles per hunt on the garmin, and have yet to show any signs of being too hot. Even in 90+ temps and mile+ races.

Not trying to sound like a hater, but I suspect that the Garmin is not getting reset everytime you open the dog box door.  I would tend to think that may include some travel distance while they are in the truck.  I've been wrong before though.  I won't lie, my dogs could not go 25 miles full out in the temps we're having now.  There would be some form of damage that was visible to me if they tried it.  I'm sure of that.

[Black Gold]

I'd have to say that legs and deep chest don't matter near as much as conditioning and genetics.....My staghound is a running dog, no doubt, but is a sprint runner and not a long distance dog......Can outrun almost anything in a stretch, but couldn't keep up with the endurance of something even like a jagd terrier who doesn't look like a runner but who can run all day......ENDURANCE is the name of the game....what all has to go into the pot to make that happen......tell me when you find out!

[UNDERDOG]

I agree to a point Scott....I do think phenotype is a good place to start tho,Chris if you are speaking of the two black dogs...conditioning is a big part but them two gyps are not only deep chested but long chested as well IMO I think that has alot to do with it. If you look historically at say some of the world champion beagles,they generally have a loner body than a typical AKC beagle...to me a better opotunity for oxenen exchange,same w/ big hounds,look at the lenghth of there chest as well as the depth. I have been watching my two pups I have been hunting,deep chest but short deep chests to me less lung capacity and I am sure some lack of conditioning on my part but if you noticed they do ware out a bit sooner than I would like.

[Circle C]

Cutter,

    I can assure you that the Garmin is reset each time I turn out. When we stop the truck to unload the dogs, I collar the dogs, then I calibrate the compass, start new hunt, and mark the truck location. There is no travel time included in the 25 miles.  There may be an occasional short ride on the Mule, but I would say that accounts for less than a mile or two in a hunt tops.  These dogs just stay busy, ~25 miles per hunt ~5-6 mph.

Contest weekend one of these dogs covered 50+ miles in two days of hunting, the other did a little over 45 miles.  That weekend was hard on them, but they rested a few days and were ready to do it again.  

[Circle C]

Bryant,  Yes, its the black dogs I am talking about.   I have also noticed that they have loose, thin skin , but I am not sure that has anything to do with their heat tolerance.    I am certain that conditioning plays a large role, but I can't help but think there is something in the phenotype that is playing into this.

Maybe a muscle type? these are long lean dogs, they do not have bunchy muscles like some cur dogs?

[Monteria]

You may be on to something with the muscle type. Long muscle striations are far more efficient at repetitive motion while short striation muscle is much stronger but does not provide the endurance that long muscle striation does. When was the last time that you saw a strongman competitor run a marathon?

I think that an efficient cooling system, big tong, could certainly have an effect on longevity also.

Other than that, conditioning

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

Cutter,

    I can assure you that the Garmin is reset each time I turn out. When we stop the truck to unload the dogs, I collar the dogs, then I calibrate the compass, start new hunt, and mark the truck location. There is no travel time included in the 25 miles.  There may be an occasional short ride on the Mule, but I would say that accounts for less than a mile or two in a hunt tops.  These dogs just stay busy, ~25 miles per hunt ~5-6 mph.

Contest weekend one of these dogs covered 50+ miles in two days of hunting, the other did a little over 45 miles.  That weekend was hard on them, but they rested a few days and were ready to do it again.  

Circle C,

Are you going to each dog collar on the dog sceen, and resetting the trip for them individually?  If not, it is not covering just the "drop" of that dog.  It would be covering the travel route since the collars were turned on.  Again, I don't want to come across harsh, but 25 miles in this heat is rank to say the least.  I can take pics of the screens if it will help.  I often don't explain myself very well. 

[Monteria]

CBC, A 4 to 5 hour long, 25 mile per dog hunt is pretty normal for us. And our dogs never get a ride.

Steve

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

CBC, A 4 to 5 hour long, 25 mile per dog hunt is pretty normal for us. And our dogs never get a ride.

Steve

Well then, let me be the first to say that my dogs can not compare to the Texas dogs.  With this hot muggy heat we have in Florida, I would most likely do damage to my hounds.  If you guys are indeed resetting the individaul collars each turnout, and it says 25 miles, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Next time you come to Florida, bring the dogs, we'll go to my club.  That is some great conditioning if they can do that day in day out all day long.  I won't lie, I truely don't think my dogs would hang.

[USHOG]

 After one hog or 5 miles I put the dog up and let out the new dog. This is the only way I have learned to hunt during the heat of the day.

 Conditioning and breeding will play a huge factore in a dogs ability to work through the heat.

 I have a friend that uses rhodesian ridgebacks and those dogs dont care if it is 105 or freezing they hunt hard and dont seem to mind the heat at all and the heat surly doesnt slow them down one bit.

[Monteria]

I think that there are a lot of differences to consider. For example, the last thing that you will ever call Central TX. is muggy. We are DRY. We have relatively open country from the dogs perspective, we just don't have very much really thick stuff so not much to slow them down. I'm betting that if I did take my dogs out of their environment, they would not preform nearly as well.

And I should clarify that I do not hunt in the heat of the day and they cant do that for days on end.... two to three days in a row is about all that I'm going to get out of them and day three is going to be slowwww.

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

Don't get me wrong, mine would have the desire, but I would not risk their safety.  I would box them long before they hit 25 miles in the climate I live in.  In the winter, game on.

[make-em-squeel]

There are 3 types of muscle fibers. 1 fast glycolytic as seen in sprinters and quater horses, 2 slow oxidative as seen in marathon runners and thorough bred horses. (pardon the spelling) 3. oxidative a combo you can breed for this. In the 60's the russians would test their olympic athletes for there muscle type and if they weren't ideal for their particular event would not allow them to train anymore. You can train to maximize the type of muscle fiber or to work towards the other way but your type of fiber will allow you to go farther with equall conditioning.

[Bump]

They typically cover 25 miles per hunt on the garmin, and have yet to show any signs of being too hot. Even in 90+ temps and mile+ races.

Not trying to sound like a hater, but I suspect that the Garmin is not getting reset everytime you open the dog box door.  I would tend to think that may include some travel distance while they are in the truck.  I've been wrong before though.  I won't lie, my dogs could not go 25 miles full out in the temps we're having now.  There would be some form of damage that was visible to me if they tried it.  I'm sure of that.

I reset my Garmin every time I hunt. Last hunt....sunday a week ago. Hunted for 2 hours and the dogs had been 20 miles. Time before that it was 17-18 miles. It's not too far fetched if the dogs are working and tracking. But yes...a fraction of that is time in the ranger from one turn out to the next.

[Circle C]

Cutter,

Well then, let me be the first to say that my dogs can not compare to the Texas dogs.  With this hot muggy heat we have in Florida, I would most likely do damage to my hounds.  If you guys are indeed resetting the individaul collars each turnout, and it says 25 miles, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Next time you come to Florida, bring the dogs, we'll go to my club.  That is some great conditioning if they can do that day in day out all day long.  I won't lie, I truely don't think my dogs would hang.

These dogs are typically hunted 2-3 times a week, not day in and day out.  They hunt hard, and they usually get a day or two of rest. With a few exceptions, such as contest weekend, where they hunt all weekend long. With regards to hot muggy heat, hunting in Houston can not be that different from hunting in Florida.  This is palmetto bottoms, high heat, and high humidity. Turned out yesterday at 7:00pm, and hunted until close to midnight. 90's and depending on the time of day, 60-90% humidity.

Still wondering if there are physical traits to look for that would help produce heat tolerant dogs.

[Black Gold]

Here ya go Chris:

Dog has got the shades for UV protection and not to mention those pesky thorns......And the "DoggieCOOL" vest complete with 2 cool packets to keep the dog's body temp down on those long summer runs!

[Cull Buck]

Here are some of my random thoughts....

1. My most heat tolerant dog is a gyp that has loose thin skin with very little fur.  She has almost no hair on her belly and chest, thin hair on her sides, and normal hair down her back.  She is lightly muscled with a light bone structure, and pointy head w/ a long narrow muzzle.  She weighs around 45-50 lbs and hunts with a very busy pace.  My two males are completely wiped out after a hunt but she is usally still ready rock.

2.  I honestly do believe that different types of muscle play a role.  I've been told numerous times regarding atheletes that large more bulky muscle will consume more oxygen then lean muscle mass.  Kind of like a marathon runner vs a running back....different muscle types and different abilities to handle fatigue from long term muscle stress.

3.  20-26 miles is the norm for our dogs on a 4 hour hunt.  We reset each color so that we can see what each dog does on every hunt and what we have found is the two strike dogs will always travel 20-26 miles on hunt, my short range dog will average around 18 miles and the help dog we hunt with is normally around 14-16 miles.  The catchdog has a collar on to so we can usually get a good idea how far we walked and that's normally around 3.5-5 miles for the hunt(just depends on how much trashing I have to break up   ).

4. Males vs females....I don't know if there is anything to this but as I mentioned the gyp I hunt is much more heat tolerant than my males.  I tend to believe this is because of reason #2 above.  Both males are in that 65-75 lb range and have pretty thick muscle tone, much thicker than the gyp. I consider both males to be in very good shape and show a little rib.  The gyp has a slighter build but doesn't show any rib at all and could possible benefit from losing a pound or two.  Go figure....