Another open vs silent thread!

[WestTexasCurs]

There is no right or wrong comment.This is only what YOUR opinion is.What have you seen over the years to make you sway one way or the other?.................................Why do most hog hunters want a silent dog?................What do you call a open dog?...............I would love to hear what some guys think on the subject.

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

What do you call a open dog?.........

If it opens it's mouth, and lets out a noise while the hog is moving greater than 5 yards, it is open in my mind.

[matt_aggie04]

Open=Barking or making a noise before the hog is stopped, some say oh well he only opens on a hot track or he opens when the hog breaks but open is open to me.
Most believe that open dogs push the hogs and allow the hog to know how far away the dogs are, I would personally like to hunt behind a hound or pack of hounds just to compare.  I have only hunted behind open curs and houndxcurs.  I don't know that one is better or worse then the other but I like to KNOW that when a dog barks they are looking at a stopped hog.  It is just personal preference...
Matt

[buddybegone]

matt go hunt with marshall and high ball he is open barks all the way and he does pretty good

[DIAMOND A KENNELS]

I THINK ITS WHEN A DOG ''OPENS'' ON ''TRACK'' OR ''OPENS''' AFTER THE HOG HAS BROKE AND IS RUNING ANOTHER WISE JUST DONT SHUT UP. I HAD A FRIEND THAT HAD A DOG THAT EVERY TIME HIS FOOT HIT THE GROUND HE WAS BARKING  OR ''OPENING'' TALK ABOUT AGGRAVATING   U DIDNT NO WHAT WAS GOING ON IF HE WAS BAYED OR STILL RUNNING A TRACK OR RUNNING A HOG. I NO WE JUST RAN ALOT OF HOGS DONT RECALL CATCHING THAT MANY HOGS WITH THAT DOG. BUT DO REMEMBER DRIVING OR RUNNING ALOT OUT OF THE COUNTRY WITH HIM BUT WE WERE RUNNING HOGS THAT ARE DOG SMART IF THEY HERE UR TRUCK OR 4 WEELER THERE GONE AND RUNNING IF A STICK BREAKS THERE OFF AND RUNNING I JUST DONT THINK THAT DOG HELPED THE PROBLEM. I GUESS THEY COULD HEAR HIM COMING FROM A MILE AWAY LOL. DONT NO BUT I PERSONALLY LIKE A SILENT DOG BECAUSE I NO WHEN I HEAR MY DOGS OPEN THAT MEANS THERE LOOKING AT HIM..  

[WestTexasCurs]

So do yall think that If A hog breaks,he is gonna run faster if the dogs opens?................How do these slient dogs find hogs for yall?............Do they take a track and trail off into the pasture to where the hogs are bedded?..............Or do most of them just run around until they wind a hog in their bed?

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

So do yall think that If A hog breaks,he is gonna run faster if the dogs opens?................How do these slient dogs find hogs for yall?............Do they take a track and trail off into the pasture to where the hogs are bedded?..............Or do most of them just run around until they wind a hog in their bed?

This is where it gets good.

[matt_aggie04]

I think IMO that a hog does not run wide open all the time.  He runs till he feels he is safer then he slows down and catches some wind.  IMO I think that if he can hear a dog barking the whole time he is able to locate the dog better thus knowing when he can stop and how long he can stop for.  In a situation where the hog is going to stand and fight I don't think it matters either way but for a hog that likes to run I think it gives a slight advantage to the hog.  I know if I was running from someone I would not mind having them hollar at me the whole time, I would know right where they were. 
MG

[Noah]

Good point Matt,  I think it really only matters when you're dealing with dog smart hogs... Hogs like that hear a dog open, and they're ready to slip.  Silent dogs obviously come in all varieties, hunting wise.  Definitely got to keep my tracker handy when I put Ellie down... the disadvantage of being totally silent is they can be in the next county before you even figure out they jumped one...  I do feel I catch more hogs because of it though..

[matt_aggie04]

Here is a silent vs. open twist for you, walk hunt from the truck next time you go to the woods.  I will promise you more hogs caught and they will be closer to you haha.  They can hear the buggies too!
MG

[Cull Buck]

I have two curs that upon striking the hog and it breaking will sound off while chasing it the first twenty yards or so of the chase then the shut up until they have it bayed.  Otherwise these dogs don't make a peep until they have eyes on a hog.  I consider these dogs silent dogs. To me open dogs are dogs that bark upon finding and/or working a track or dogs that constantly bark while in persuit. Just my opinion.

I much prefer silent dogs because that's what I'm used to I guess.  Open dogs throw me off completely but I've seen them used with success so to each his own.

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

To keep it short, they both have their place in the overall scope of hog dogging.  Generally, it is the size of the land, the experience of the hogs, and the group you hunt with that dictate what will work best for a specific parcel of property.  I only own hounds that are very vocal on track, but I can certainly aggree that there are times I wish I had a perfectly silent RCD.

[jsh]

West Texas,

Personally, I've got no problem with an open mouth dog.  When I first began studying this sport (I waited 5 years before owning my own dogs) I often heard people bashing hounds or open dogs.  A lot of them would not even give them a chance. Fortunately I had many opportunities to hunt behind open hound packs as well as individual dogs that were good, solid hog dogs.  From what I saw, those dogs were just as good as a silent dog when it came to hog hunting.  A smart hog in the area will run at the sound of a bay and a hog squealing just as fast as he will from an open trailing dog.

When talking open mouth dogs, track speed is key IMO.  A good dog should be able to catch up to the hog whether he's open or not, unless it's an extremely old track.  My lead dog is pure hound and opens up only when he sees them, but will never shut up until the fat lady sings.  He's great at locating, great at the bay but poor at shutting down a runner.  I supplement him with a couple good curs and that helps that issue.  Another reason I don't mind him open is that when the curs are caught, I can easily locate the catch if it's a bigger hog that's not squealing.

I agree with Cutter Bay on what an open dog is.

Just my opinions - my dogs are by no means the best and I'm sure as heck no expert, I just enjoy hunting.

[WestTexasCurs]

West Texas,

Personally, I've got no problem with an open mouth dog.  When I first began studying this sport (I waited 5 years before owning my own dogs) I often heard people bashing hounds or open dogs.  A lot of them would not even give them a chance. Fortunately I had many opportunities to hunt behind open hound packs as well as individual dogs that were good, solid hog dogs.  From what I saw, those dogs were just as good as a silent dog when it came to hog hunting.  A smart hog in the area will run at the sound of a bay and a hog squealing just as fast as he will from an open trailing dog.

When talking open mouth dogs, track speed is key IMO.  A good dog should be able to catch up to the hog whether he's open or not, unless it's an extremely old track.  My lead dog is pure hound and opens up only when he sees them, but will never shut up until the fat lady sings.  He's great at locating, great at the bay but poor at shutting down a runner.  I supplement him with a couple good curs and that helps that issue.  Another reason I don't mind him open is that when the curs are caught, I can easily locate the catch if it's a bigger hog that's not squealing.

I agree with Cutter Bay on what an open dog is.

Just my opinions - my dogs are by no means the best and I'm sure as heck no expert, I just enjoy hunting.

Thats a real good reply,IMO.Just about sums up what I think about the subject.I dont think open,or silent dogs are the only answer.I do think that ALOT of folks dont have a clue when it comes to Sure nuff hog dogs.I aint saying that I have a yard full of em.But I have hunted behind a few,and only one of them was silent on a track,and that dog would squall when a hog broke..............................But then again what I like in a dog,aint what the next man would like.

[scdogman]

Some ramdon thoughts/opionions about the subject. 

1.  You can have a cold trailing nose and be silent.  Extremely rare and worth gold in my book, but there are strains out there.
2.  You can catch hogs with both open and silent.
3.  IN some cases, I believe your initial bay could be closer to where you turned out if using silent dogs.  Hog never knows that there is a dog in the woods until he is woke up with a dog in his face.  If the hog breaks, the stealth advantage is gone. I have hunted with guys that always wanted the stealth advantage.  Doors are eased closes and dogs better not bark in the box and if a dog barks, he is looking dead in the eye of that hog.
4.  IMO if a dogs opens he needs to burn on a track.  Silent dogs, because they have a stealth advantage sometimes, can be a little slower and produce.  OPen and slow is a sin in my book.

[WestTexasCurs]

Very good reply.How many dogs have you seen that could cold trail,and do it dead silent?I have only seen a handfull,and they werent for sale.

[Bryant]

I personally prefer silent dogs, because I like the "sneaky" approach.  The only dog I ever owned that was semi-open would only bark behind a hog that was bayed and broke, and would only bark while he had the hog in sight.  It actually proved kind of useful at times, because without having to get out the tracker I would know what general direction they were headed for just a little bit.

The problem as I see it, not so much lies in whether you prefer open or silent but much like my feelings over mixing a pack of rough and loose dogs, I think there can be problems when mixing open and silent dogs and especially ones that don't regularly hunt together.  A couple years back a hunting partner had the most beautiful walker hound wander up to his place.  He tried the dog in a pen, and he would flat sing to a hog.  Carried him hunting a couple times, and that dog would start bawling the minute his feet would hit the ground.  I could go into details, but the moral of the story is it really screwed the other dogs up for a couple hunts, then I don't think you could have begged a dog to honor him should he have bayed.

What I've always found interesting is hearing all the old-time hound hunters talk about how frequently they used to start a hog and perhaps run that sucker until sometime the next day (or perhaps longer)...then you hear people always talking about how the hogs have gotten dog-smart over the years and they just flat run now days like they use to not.  Hmmm......

[Wmwendler]

I've hunted behind open dogs, semi-open, silent all the way to dont hardly bark at all.  I prefer silent dogs when you hear them open you know what it is.  I consider a dog silent if they Bark looking at a hog or right after a hog breaks then shut up and get the hog stopped.  Trail barking, opening on scent, ect., I don't care for at all.  Let me just say this what good does an open trailing dog do for hog hunting, it certainly would not benifit me to have an open dog, even if it did not effect the hogs tendancy to run.
Matt made a good point about the trail barking and how a hog moves when he is evaiding dogs.  Allot of times they will move at a pace determined by the ammount of pressure they feel behind them. If they hear dogs behind them the pace will be faster.  If they hear nothing they might slow down or even sqat and hide in the brush if he feels like he put enough distance behind him.  Where this really comes into play is thick brush where it takes a dog a while to manuver through while working a track a dog can fly in the open on a track or even in open woods but in larger expanses of thickets and brairs a dog is slowed down allot by the vegetation.  Because of that its my opinion that even a dog that is fast on a track can't utilize his full potential because of the vegetation so any advantage of track speed making up for the dog opening is eliminated.  Bring into play other factors that slow a dogs tracking down like heat, pollen, cattle scent, ect. then track speed might be slowed down to the point where stealth/silent dogs becomes very important.  Now sometimes I hunt places with allot of pasture and during the winter time I could use open dogs with good track speed and catch just as many hogs because they flat out run them down and make them bay no matter what the hog hears or sees or feels like doing.  But we dont expereince those ideal conditions very much around here and most of that is during deer season.  The Same goes for dogs pushing a standing hog, it might not matter when conditions are right and the dog has a good chance of shutting the hog down again any way.  But let the woods get thick with vegetation and hot and humid and the advantage gets tipped into the hogs hands a dog can blow the only chance at getting a hog bayed by pushing a hog that was otherwise standing at bay.  Thats a whole other subject, but the point is its the conditions that dictate whether the little things, like open dogs or pushy dogs come into play or not.  Just my 2 cents, but you would'nt have so many people beleive so strongly in it if there was nothing to it.  Now granted some people might be green off the vine and know nothing about hog dogs and say they only run silent dogs but chances are they are just repeating what they have heard others say without really knowing the reasons behind it.

West Texas Curs........I'd say a silent dog runs a track just the same as an open dog he just keeps his mouth shut.

Waylon

[DIAMOND A KENNELS]

well said waylon very good

[crackerc]

My Dixie female could cold trail with ANY dog I ever saw and was 100% silent. If she ever barked you could turn out the catch dog as she had him stopped and was looking at him. She had the best nose of any cur I have ever seen, I have seen other "good dogs" turned out on a track they couldn't smell. Load them up, turn her out on the same track the other dogs had walked all over and her leave on the track like she was looking at the hog. And bay the hog by herself at the end.

Just wish I had a yard full of them like her!!!! I agree they are few and far between and she is the only one like that I have ever owned.
Makes you place a little higher standard on your other dogs after having one like that.........