TDHA Contest - Feedback wanted

[Circle C]

Reburn,

   I think that the winners of any contest are always suspect. We looked at the big hog at weigh in. He looked legit to us, and I am not about to call someone a cheater unless I know something personally.

Brute,

    My opinion on barr hogs fall in like with Mike. too many barr hogs running around in the woods to be counted out. Especially in east Texas.

Realdogs,

     I think you have it figured out. Just because the way someone hunts does not produce the numbers, some may need to change the way they hunt to win.  I do agree that we need two divisions. Knife and dogs, and shot hogs.

C Miller,
  We did toss some hogs during cleaning. We did not disqualify any hogs on the scale. This is a learning process, and we learn as we go. If a hog came in with ice in the cavity, or it was chilled in a cooler, it was counted. There was some effort on every hog entered to keep it cool when we saw it. Once we got to cleaning we found some bad ones. At that point we had no idea which team it came from. We are working on a system for 2009 to eliminate that.
Some ideas we have had are this.

Get a local processor, or a committee of 3 people to judge condition prior to weigh in. If they call it bad, it is not counted.

Another option, is to have a pile for each team, and process them by the team. If we do this, they payout will not occur until all hogs are skinned.

Still looking for ideas.
If you have some ideas you would like to bring up, let the TDHA know about it. We want this to be a fun productive hunt with integrity.

[BRUTE]

Ya, it was noticed by many people that there was no way to challenge a hog. The way yall had them stacked right after they were weighed it would be impossible.


We had been considering putting on a tournament and that was the way we were going to do it. Have three judges that walk up and inspect the hogs prior to being weighed. If there was any question they would be tagged like cattle at the auction and thrown on another pile. Then we would question the team and make a decision.

[Circle C]

Cattle tags would be a great idea.

I still have tons of that damn glue from when I was putting on team sortings.

What profession would you look for in a judge? Butcher? Processor?

[mley1]

Here's a novel idea. How about having the teams clean their own hogs before coming to weigh in? Have them bring in the skinned and quartered hogs, on ice in an ice chest, weight the quarters and loins, pay out based on total edible meat donated. That would save a bunch of work at the expo and should make sure any hog meat donated is edible. I don't know any hunter who doesn't have ice chests and the skill to skin and quarter their own hogs.

[Circle C]

Realdogs,

  Something we have discussed is a skinning competition with some money on the line.

We need to get some skinning racks/ hoists built. I can donate some material, and I can get all the welding supplies donated too. Just need someone that can make the racks/hoists. You don't want to work around something I have welded.

Marty,

 I like your thinking, and not to shoot it down, but most of these teams would have more money tied up in ice chests than they have potential to win in the contest.  We are talking about a team average of 500# of actual meat. I think your average hunter may have a couple of 120qt coolers, but nothing more than that. You guts that fish a lot, tend to have lots of large coolers.

[BRUTE]

Realdogs,

  Something we have discussed is a skinning competition with some money on the line.

We need to get some skinning racks/ hoists built. I can donate some material, and I can get all the welding supplies donated too. Just need someone that can make the racks/hoists. You don't want to work around something I have welded.

Marty,

 I like your thinking, and not to shoot it down, but most of these teams would have more money tied up in ice chests than they have potential to win in the contest.  We are talking about a team average of 500# of actual meat. I think your average hunter may have a couple of 120qt coolers, but nothing more than that. You guts that fish a lot, tend to have lots of large coolers.

Ya, like I have said before it is not uncommon for a team to bring 20 hogs to a weigh in. I personally would not go for cleaning and icing down 20 hogs, not even for that money.

Plus it takes away from the whole atmosphere of bringing in the hogs.

I am not real sure who to use to make up the three people. Just need three hard nosed hog hunters, not associated with any specific organizations, that are not afraid to say if some thing looks out of the ordinary. Then I would have a larger group come in and look into the "tagged" hogs with more detail, along with a few questions for the team members. IF a polygraph was thrown in there also it would be probably the best you could do.

The polygraph is still the best idea by far. Test every one who will recieve money.

[Circle C]

Realdogs,


    We were tossing around the idea of having a timed skinning event.  1 hog for each person in the event
As hogs come in and are weighed, they get grouped based on similar weights ( maybe hogs weighing between 150-160 dressed) go to the skinning event.

Thoughts?

[mley1]

Marty,

 I like your thinking, and not to shoot it down, but most of these teams would have more money tied up in ice chests than they have potential to win in the contest.  We are talking about a team average of 500# of actual meat. I think your average hunter may have a couple of 120qt coolers, but nothing more than that. You guts that fish a lot, tend to have lots of large coolers.

I hear ya Chris. I was figuring that if each team has 3 members that should be at least six ice chests. I can put at least two good sized hogs in a 120quart ice chest. That's four hogs a man. And, twelve hogs a team, if there's only 3 team members. Did ya'll have some teams with more hogs than that?

Shucks, I don't hunt as much as some. But, I got a 150quart, 128quart, several 48's and a 50. And, if ya'll are having a polygraph for the winners there shouldn't be a problem with cheating. That way folks who have to travel several hours to weight in hogs wouldn't be bringing ya'll some nasty inedible hogs. This way all meat would be in edible condition. Not to mention saving ya'll the hassle of skinning and skinning wracks. Plus, the hassle of getting rid of hog carcuses. It sure would save ya'll a bunch of problems.

[Circle C]

We had teams with up to 16 hogs per team.

It appears that you can count on about 1/2 of all teams that enter to actually weigh in.

We will try to change that for 2009. Trying to get prizes for all teams that turn in meat, regardless of weight or ranking.
This year, if you hauled in meat, you got entered into a drawing for a TriTronics Trashbreaker, or a Wildlife Material Tracking Collar.  2009, we would like to have enough prizes that we can have one allocated for each and every team that weighs in.

When we get the two divisions setup, and the polygraph, get ready, cuz there will be a lot more hogs hauled in.
We only think ~160 hogs and 20k is a lot.

[mley1]

Cool deal man.  The more hogs the better!!

[Hogboy]

If we are just taking backstaps and hams, isnt hanging a hog more work than necessary?  

Normally, when you completely skin a hog hanging from the back legs, the hams are the last things you remove.  Thus, I would think this to be more of a problem.  I think you could have the backstraps out in the time it took you to hang a hog.  This was the method used the past two years cause that is the best we had, if there is a better method I would love to implement it.

Also remember that the expo comitte asked that all cleaning be done in the washing station so that blood and water did not taint the ground.  We did a fairly good job of keeping everything on the tarps but still spilled a little.

RJB

[Circle C]

Ron,

   You are absolutely right about the backstraps and hams, and that being the fastest way to get them done.  What has been brought up is the potential for a skinning contest, that would in turn let some of the hogs produce ribs, etc. Give the spectators something more to look at.

One thing I enjoy doing, is learning how others skin a hog. There seems to be a hundred different ways to "skin a hog", and it might make for a good informative display, while the people doing the work have a chance to take home some money.

Not saying all hogs need doing this way, just pull out some of the hogs for it, and clean the rest the same way as the past two years.

[mley1]

Scott, sounds like you skin hogs like I do. I hang my head up and skin. It definately helps using the weight to help you. Plus, I'll skin one side at a time. On boars the shield helps peal everything down. I take the front shoulders off first after skinning. Then the backstraps. Then the hind quarters, through the hip joint. Ribs and trimmings are last.

When I skin I take off the hooves at the joint above them. The quarters all come off with just my knife. The only time I might use a saw is on some big ribs. But, most ribs will come off fairly easy with a knife and a bit of work. Sometimes a small hand axe works good on the ribs.

Anyhow, a skinning contest might be good. It sure would be interesting to see how other folks do it.

[Circle C]

I skin head up too.

Usually I just make a noose around the neck, and start to skinning.

[mley1]

I skin head up too.

Usually I just make a noose around the neck, and start to skinning.

Me too. I do a few things in order though. Once the hog is hung, I'll run my knife up the insides of each leg, run a circle around each joint above the hooves, take the hooves off, run a circle around the top of the neck, run a line down the front, run a line down the back, go to skinning. Sometimes I'll leave the bottom hooves until I get a little farther into it. But I take the top ones off early to avoid dirt getting on the meat. I'm a freak about trying to keep the meat clean.

I vote for a skinning contest! It should be real fun!

[BRUTE]

We skin on the ground. IF we want a back strap and quaters we split the hog along the back and work down. Leave the guts in the carcas.

I got pics some where of guys packing quarters out on their shoulders.

[Russ]

        How about a skinning rack and a person from the team start skinning after the judges make there rounds in addition to weigh in and a staging area or here is a novel idea how about go to the  high school local ag mechanics  and sub out a design for a 40 ft sliding (removeable hook as to bring them back to the front of the line for the next hog) and rack  with tables type areas system on two sides with skinners(people) in the middle assembly type set up working the hog from end to the other, one guy pulling the clothes(skin back), slide it down next guy cutting out the straps,sliding it down to the last guys with sawzaws cutting the hams off.and a trailer parked at the end for the remains..,,,,,,and used one years payout money to contract the skinning trailer and the money will go to another good benefit.I think with all the experienced people here the design could come together quickly.



Realdogs

That's what I was saying in my post on the first page, make an assembly line about 7-8 foot tall and then have a winch on one end to lift the hog up, then hang it by 1 or both leg and work them down the line. you can find the rolling hooks pretty easy and all that is needed after that is just flat bar for your rail. If you got REAL fancy you could have it where the hog can be rolled over the trailer then cut the ribcage front par of the body off as the last step and then all that is on the hook is the last ham.

[instagator911]

Realdogs,

  Something we have discussed is a skinning competition with some money on the line.

We need to get some skinning racks/ hoists built. I can donate some material, and I can get all the welding supplies donated too. Just need someone that can make the racks/hoists. You don't want to work around something I have welded.

Marty,

 I like your thinking, and not to shoot it down, but most of these teams would have more money tied up in ice chests than they have potential to win in the contest.  We are talking about a team average of 500# of actual meat. I think your average hunter may have a couple of 120qt coolers, but nothing more than that. You guts that fish a lot, tend to have lots of large coolers.

 I willing to donate my time and welding/fab skills.

[Hogboy]

Havent skinned out as many hogs as deer, but I know what you are saying.  Every deer I do I hang by the head and skin down if I am not trying to cape it.  But this requires you to skin the whole thing to get to one part.

But......the other idea I had was to cut the straps out and have folks with a saws-all cutting the hog at the hips.  This would allow us to get the bulk of the hog out of the way and would allow more people to work at one table. 

I am all for a skinning contest!  I think that would be a neat contest.

The main reason not to skin the whole hog for the rest of the hogs is to save time and the fact that de-boning of the neck and front legs takes alot longer than the rest of the hog.

Regardless of how we decide to do things next year........let me be the first to thank everyone for there input.  Everyone seems to have an opinion on how TDHA should do things, but alot of people do not speak up.  It is nice to finally get some feedback on these issues.  Please remember though, TDHA will never please everyone with the rules and set up of this contest.....we just hope to please the masses and keep this contest growing.  There is no reason the hog expo and hunting contest couldnt be a HUGE event in years to come.  Thanks for all of the support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

RJB

[catchdog7469]

I think a skining contest would be great. I skin head down just the way I have always done it. there is really no wrong way just personal preferance.  I would be willing to donate my welding/fab skills and machine to build racks.