Criteria for breeding dogs

[TexasHogDogs]

Hybrid vigor)

Heterosis, hybrid vigor, or outbreeding enhancement, is the improved or increased function of any biological quality in a hybrid offspring ...

Terminal crossbreeding

The first crossbreed produce a superior animal due to hybrid vigor . Often this crossbreed is part of a rotational crossbreeding scheme, ...

Crossbreed (section Hybrid animals)

animal, often with the intention to create offspring that share the traits of both parent lineages, or producing an animal with hybrid vigor . ...

[chainrated]

  Well when you stack and stack these genes you are going to get dogs in liters that have taken the little Hybrid Vigor that is in the bloodline and are going to make the super dogs and then you are going to get the dogs in the liter that have taken just a piece of the hybrid vigor that is n the line and they are good good dogs but not super dogs and then you are going to get dogs in the liter that have taken the whole great gene pool and have taken none of the Hybrid Vigor that is in the line are the breeding and these dogs are a little slower , may not have the staminia some of the others have and may some other not so liked effects .   But and I say but these dogs are like this for a reason it is not that they are bad dogs they are good dogs with great great gene pools that are so condensed and stacked and packed with great genes they mother nature will not let them turn out super stars like some of their brothers and sisters but mother nature has given them the blessing of having all the great gene pool that there other super star brothers and sisters did not get and therefore cannot produce a 1/10 of what these old plain jane dogs can if a man knows how to recognize it and use it .

Just me man . 

Anybody wanting to breed a line of dogs needs to call and talk to this TexasHogDogs guy..
 If you find that one dog that has all those years of linebreeding genes all stacked up together and also throws that into the pups then you have found exactly what you've been linbreeding for..And a lot of the time it's not gonna be the best dog of the line, it's gonna be better, A REPRODUCER of the line..

[chainrated]

.IMO breeding best to the best from a line of close related dogs will eventually produce 100 percent good pups more often than not...

Reuben do you know of any dogs like that?
I wanna buy about 10 of them..

[Reuben]

.IMO breeding best to the best from a line of close related dogs will eventually produce 100 percent good pups more often than not...

Reuben do you know of any dogs like that?
I wanna buy about 10 of them..

one thing I can tell you is this ...my story has been the same from the first day I came on here and has never changed...and if I were to do it again it would be exactly the same way...my way of thinking hasn't changed even though there are some folks on here that know there business like Jimmy...

but to answer your question I sure don't know who does and I don't now but I did at one time...

I have a grandson from that line of dogs I had bred up and I also have his littermate sister and both are gritty hard hunting dogs and will find one in the woods if there is one...even though they are 3rd generation the other blood is the same as what I started with but my friend took that line of dogs in a different direction...he has good dogs but a little different than what I had and liked...I am pretty picky when breeding dogs but when we need dogs we have to settle for what we can get...I am grateful that I was given these 2...his culls because of the long range and too much gritt...he don't like bay busters...I don't like bay busters so I want a little more gritt...bay busting under certain conditions...but that is hunting...

If he were 100 percent from my old line he still wouldn't produce 100 percent because I would have to breed him to outside blood...or...I could find an outstanding female and bred him to her and then select a female and breed her back to him...but he also has a little kemmer blood that I sure didn't like what the man bred or what he liked...so that is lurking in the gene pool...

his good points...he is hard hunting and can find a pig...he hunts as well as what I kept...
bad points...he is about 10 pounds smaller than what I like...he has a weak bark...his coat is a little longer than what I like...and he only has one nut...his sister has a few faults but she hunts as well...

now I want something different...I want more of the RCD type but not suicidal...have the female bred to a pit bull but won't know if she took for another 1.5 2weeks or so...

but I will say this...yes it can be done...I cant say for many generations but I will bet that it can hold for a while...

In my mind it does not happen very often because people line breed but there is 25 percent to 50 percent no relations and when you have that you get too much variability...and when that happens you just don't know what you are going to get...

at one time I bred other dogs and I only bred them because they were pure bred and I really didn't have a plan...then one day after many lies and going through many sorry dogs I decided to breed my own and get serious about it and then I started testing and splitting hairs when it comes to breeding better dogs.. I even tested for endurance and swimming ability...

[Cajun]

I believe everything Texashogdog has said because it relates to my own experiences of breeding plotts. I have bred 3 or 4 generations of tight line bred dogs & started with good dogs but it seems like the pups start falling back towards just average dogs after about 4 generations. I then look for another tight bred strain of plotts that have all the traits that I like & breed that into my line. Just like THdogs said, the pups were far superior & that is due to the hybrid vigor. Does it work all the time? No, but it seems to work more often then not & if the pups are  superior enough, I breed them back into my line & continue linebreeding them.
Here is my criteria & might not be for a hog hunter because I bearhunt too.
Nose, speed, grit, endurance, tree dog. They must be able to find their own hog & they must stay bayed by their self or they are culls to me. There are other things I like but those are the most important to me.

[TexasHogDogs]

Anybody wanting to breed a line of dogs needs to call and talk to this TexasHogDogs guy..
 If you find that one dog that has all those years of linebreeding genes all stacked up together and also throws that into the pups then you have found exactly what you've been linbreeding for..And a lot of the time it's not gonna be the best dog of the line, it's gonna be better, A REPRODUCER of the line..

Those dogs are call Freaks of Nature.  One in a million , are Ghost dogs !  These dogs are also the dogs that go down in the History Books known as great great performance dogs and also knows as great great Producing dogs of their kind. The kinds whole lines are made of and not just one line but there can be many lines spurred and built off of these kinds of freaks of nature.   They do come along, great great bred dogs,   that have both departments ,  great Performance and  Producing dogs ,  but they are rare , rare.  These are the kind you read about in the History books .  Rare because most the time a dog are gyp is going to have one without the other are part of one and only part of another .

[TexasHogDogs]

I believe everything Texashogdog has said because it relates to my own experiences of breeding plotts. I have bred 3 or 4 generations of tight line bred dogs & started with good dogs but it seems like the pups start falling back towards just average dogs after about 4 generations. I then look for another tight bred strain of plotts that have all the traits that I like & breed that into my line. Just like THdogs said, the pups were far superior & that is due to the hybrid vigor. Does it work all the time? No, but it seems to work more often then not & if the pups are  superior enough, I breed them back into my line & continue linebreeding them.
Here is my criteria & might not be for a hog hunter because I bearhunt too.
Nose, speed, grit, endurance, tree dog. They must be able to find their own hog & they must stay bayed by their self or they are culls to me. There are other things I like but those are the most important to me.

Cajun

When we were breeding bulldogs and I do mean a ton of them and not just me but close friends .  I got this notion that the tighter you bred them the better the dogs would get.  Well that was true and we done it but they come to the point of what you are talking about they come to the point to were they were so tight they just got stale so to speak are they become lesser dogs.

Now ,  at this point I had this notion that if I just kept on heavy linebreeding and keep going beyond this point that there would come a point and time that the bloodline would reverse itself and then that what was at the back of the pedigree like dogs that started the line the super dogs the line was made of would slowly work its way back to the front and I would get a ton of dogs like the old dogs use to start this line of dogs.

We done it period .  No guessing no noting I seen it with my own eyes and so did close friends and breeders of these dogs.  What happen was,  after we went beyond that point was that the dogs still were still average and some slower and not as good as the line itself .

Now with that said.  Yes we did get some damn great dogs but they were few and far between .  In other words yes you can do it and get some dang great dogs ,  but whats the point when on average the dogs are just average and the super dogs don't come as fast as they do when you use regular linebreeding and inbreeding tactics .  Its just no point in it you are going to cull way more than as if you were doing it the known way.

Also dogs come way undershot the weight is way way down,  their immune systems are not as good ,  and one major factor is they do not heal the way a dog with vigor in him does ,  it also takes twice and sometimes three times as long for one of these highly inbred dogs to bounce back as it does with a dog with Vigor in him.  These are facts no BS involved here hands on eyes on done it .

We found it far far better to keep the gene pools clean and to use Vigor crosses as sparingly as possiable but to use them right and for the right purposes and I can say I produce more than my fair share of great great bulldogs that are in the history books.
I don't want this to sound like my way is the only way and I don't want people to think am a smart allic but this is the facts of what was done and is recorded hitstory in the books .

[TexasHogDogs]

We are not talking over nite here .  We are talking 25 years and over of breeding those dogs.  Not just me but many friends so you can imagine the dogs that were went threw and bred. 

Also if you want I can tell you what happened and what we experienced and the troubles we went threw when breeding some of these heavy heavy and heavy inbred and line bred dogs.  This is when we finally went to the cross and to put Hybred Vigor back into these inbred dogs when we finally figured out it was just not going to work .

[Reuben]

I believe everything Texashogdog has said because it relates to my own experiences of breeding plotts. I have bred 3 or 4 generations of tight line bred dogs & started with good dogs but it seems like the pups start falling back towards just average dogs after about 4 generations. I then look for another tight bred strain of plotts that have all the traits that I like & breed that into my line. Just like THdogs said, the pups were far superior & that is due to the hybrid vigor. Does it work all the time? No, but it seems to work more often then not & if the pups are  superior enough, I breed them back into my line & continue linebreeding them.
Here is my criteria & might not be for a hog hunter because I bearhunt too.
Nose, speed, grit, endurance, tree dog. They must be able to find their own hog & they must stay bayed by their self or they are culls to me. There are other things I like but those are the most important to me.

Cajun...my experience after 15 years was lots more grit and more range than what I liked as well...not all the dogs but it was popping up...and it intensified over the next few generations percentage wise...

I expected all my dogs to be dogs that could do it all just as you said but didn't care about the tree dog...I figured it to be a bonus to be a tree dog but I didn't look for it as a requirement...Nose, speed, grit, endurance, hog dog....at one time I included swimming but gave that up because of the gator problem...but I did know what one of my dogs needed to look like to be a strong swimmer...

I see lots of folks talk about line breeding and inbreeding but I see these same folks scatter breed their dogs way more than what is needed...can't get consistency when doing it that way...Hybrid vigor is something that has to be considered when inbreeding and necessary at some point...but that is also touchy because how much do you really need to freshen up the blood without losing what has already been gained...that is a good question and must be done very carefully...

I knew a dog that was ugly as sin and about as dumb as a bucket of rocks and he was super inbred on a hall of fame dog...when he was bred to the right bitches in that breed of dogs her produced some awesome pups...he was entered into the hall of fame for producing hunting dogs...

[TexasHogDogs]

I see lots of folks talk about line breeding and inbreeding but I see these same folks scatter breed their dogs way more than what is needed...can't get consistency when doing it that way...Hybrid vigor is something that has to be considered when inbreeding and necessary at some point...but that is also touchy because how much do you really need to freshen up the blood without losing what has already been gained...that is a good question and must be done very carefully...

I agree Rueben.  Most of the time there is very little Hybrid Vigor needed and I have seen a ton of folks use way to much they get great dogs but they loose there consistency and once its lost its very damn hard to get back.

[Hog Dog Mike]

I agree with TexasHogDog in that if you can find what the bird dog boys call a prepotent producer that is the dog you want. If you can get a pup from a repeat mating that is proven that is good as it gets. Some of the champion dogs never produced jack. Some of the dogs that never won a championship were producers.

They kept good records such as total number of pups produced, winners produced, and number  of wins by those pups. Some dogs would have more winners but had many more pups produced. Some dogs had a very high percentage of pups produced that won----that is dog you want.

The worst dog I ever owned in my life was bred the very best--all in the purple on both sides. His mama was a no account run off heifer that should have been shot for the good of the breed. I get mad every time I think about the hours, dollars, miles, horse flesh, etc. I wasted on that dog.

[Reuben]

I agree with TexasHogDog in that if you can find what the bird dog boys call a prepotent producer that is the dog you want. If you can get a pup from a repeat mating that is proven that is good as it gets. Some of the champion dogs never produced jack. Some of the dogs that never won a championship were producers.

They kept good records such as total number of pups produced, winners produced, and number  of wins by those pups. Some dogs would have more winners but had many more pups produced. Some dogs had a very high percentage of pups produced that won----that is dog you want.

The worst dog I ever owned in my life was bred the very best--all in the purple on both sides. His mama was a no account run off heifer that should have been shot for the good of the breed. I get mad every time I think about the hours, dollars, miles, horse flesh, etc. I wasted on that dog.

Hog Dog Mike...you are talking about second rate dogs that produce the best and there is no doubt that happens...but look at that last paragraph...you said that the dog was sorry and he was bred the best...and in the next sentence you said that the dam was no account and should have been shot...all I can say is that he was not bred the best...the over all pedigree might have been full of great dogs but the one closest to the male who was the dam was a cull...

So how many times do we breed second class dogs to get the better to best dogs???I say do it if there is no other option but then move on to the offspring who has inherited all the good qualities...it's a good feeling when great dogs are producing great dogs...and it is a big concern for me when one already has a well established line breeding second rate dogs to produce great dogs...