Papers!! Papers!!! Papers!!!!

[Scott]

A dog being registered is not the problem...the problem lies with people buying those dogs and paying big money under the false pretense that just because they're registered that they are better than anything else.

Every one of my dogs have papers....papers that I've written out and filed in my cabinet.  Perhaps a couple friends and I are hunting and raising the same blood dogs which we are keeping records of and sharing.  That's how most registries are begun.  I really don't see what the fuss is all about unless its simply a jealousy issue.  

If your breeding dogs with a purpose and NOT keeping any records, then your spinning circles.

x2

[charles]

Then why all the hu-bub over startin this thread then? U saw something in that paticular line/breeding of cats, but like i commented on ur post when u posted her "oooo, ur gonna get chastized for buying papers" n now ur ?ing why other people would buy a dog with papers. I can understand u putting her up for sale to make ur wife happy but if not for making her happy, why did u send her back if it wasnt at no fault of the pup?

[KevinN]

A dog being registered is not the problem...the problem lies with people buying those dogs and paying big money under the false pretense that just because they're registered that they are better than anything else.

Every one of my dogs have papers....papers that I've written out and filed in my cabinet.  Perhaps a couple friends and I are hunting and raising the same blood dogs which we are keeping records of and sharing.  That's how most registries are begun.  I really don't see what the fuss is all about unless its simply a jealousy issue.  

If your breeding dogs with a purpose and NOT keeping any records, then your spinning circles.

x2

That first paragraph is my thinking exactly

[KevinN]

I sent her back because it was the right thing to do. Back to the man I got her from....not sell her for a profit.

Honestly... There was a litter previous to her that was a planned litter... Same Sire....unregistered Dam. I was more interested in that litter but wasn't able to get a pup. Like I said...I just wanted a pup out of THAT dog....registered or not didn't matter.

[colecross]

I my have to try to reg.my pot lickers ....just a thought,i can say this wen i do get a coupl yellow dogs they will have papers.is it because i wont papers no,i just wont to know everthing i can bout pups background.is there honest ppl yes,but iam not taking chances,if they dont turn out i wont bellie ach bout it,i will cull hard,anybody know were i can find 2 good pups?

[charles]

Cole, ck ur pm

[charles]

I can completely understand that kevin, but if u sold her for what u gave for her (unless there was an agreement between u the guy u got her from, that she was to come back if u were to get rid of her) then u wouldnt be profiting, ud b in the hole for feed n transportation n so forth, but again i understand ur reasoning. Only thing i cant understand is even though u wanted a pup from the other litter, unpapered, u buy paper n then ? why others buy papers.
 Bryant made a very good point too that folks r breeding on paper alone, watering the line down.

[KevinN]

Charles, I don't think there was an agreement per sei but it's just the right thing to do and I offered and he accepted. As far as the rest goes ...Bryant's wording was more my thinking.

[Shotgun wg]

DSmith . U ever think the problem was the trainer not the dogs. I know folks that train labs for a living and in my opinion from what I seen they ain't worth a hoot. They blame the dog. Now u get them a dog that is just right they look like superstars.

I don't knock papers but I don't put much stock in them either. I put stock in dogs. A good dog is a good dog. Papers do have a place but they are just record not pedestals.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[Cajun]

A lil off topic but it does go with the papers issue. DSmith the labs of today are two different breeds. basicly Show dogs or hunting or field trial stock. I used to train & field trial dogs & like every other breed, there are a lot of sorry Labs out there.
  Catahoulas are the same way. Most of the Registered Catahoulas are either Show dogs or baypen dogs.Very few can do both./(No hate mail please.) There are a select few people who are breeding top registered Cats.
  For sure papers do not catch hogs & maybe it is easier for some to cross dogs to get their desired traits they want in a hogdog. To each their own & whatever makes them happy.
   For myself in my plotts, I know what is in their background for 7 or 8 generations & I can pretty much tell how a paticular litter is going to turn out. Do I still get culls? Of course, but show me somebody who dosent. Do I feel like I am over charged for registering my dogs, I do. But I will continue to register my plotts as long as they make me happy.
  My cur dogs that I used to have were never registered but at the time most were not back then.
  Also remember that papers are only as good as the integrity of the person breeding the dogs.

[halfbreed]

an old saying that holds true =  the further back you can see , makes the future more easily predicted .

 I have both on my yard as I am not kennel blind and like the quote states predicting the future is made much easier by knowing the past . hand written or sent in to a registry is all the same . all the registry's do is allow a wider base of ancestors to be documented  . it doesn't mean every pup will fart a hog track just like in undocumented dogs . you don't want an association documented dog don't buy one , go get you a crossed up 8 way cross from them jammed up dogs that were accidents at best . I like a cross dog and have a yard full of them . and I like a pedigreed dog to form the foundation of the crosses . just me and the way I like it .

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

an old saying that holds true =  the further back you can see , makes the future more easily predicted .

 I have both on my yard as I am not kennel blind and like the quote states predicting the future is made much easier by knowing the past . hand written or sent in to a registry is all the same . all the registry's do is allow a wider base of ancestors to be documented  . it doesn't mean every pup will fart a hog track just like in undocumented dogs . you don't want an association documented dog don't buy one , go get you a crossed up 8 way cross from them jammed up dogs that were accidents at best . I like a cross dog and have a yard full of them . and I like a pedigreed dog to form the foundation of the crosses . just me and the way I like it .

Great points.

I think the main times that registry paperwork gets 'negative' attention or comments is when you see folks trying to sell dogs and using registry paperwork as a selling point. I had started that thread a while back, addressing the whole 'PR bred' b.s. as an example. Or when folks will place ads like '$200 without papers, $400 with.'

Nothing wrong with paperwork. Some good recipes kept on them pieces of paper.

[KevinN]

Well Robert....it's a little different story with you, your an upstanding fella....for the most part....your pups go for the same price...registered or not.

I can say the same for a couple other guys I know as well....BUT....there are WAY to many registered dogs going for $300-$500 or more per pup that ain't got no better chance at making it than any other pup out there.

Anyway...I said my piece... No need to dwell on the subject.

If you earn your money you deserve to spend it how you like I guess.

[KevinN]

"for the most part."

That could be misinterpreted, lol

I meant....

for the most part... His pups go for the same price.

NOT

Your an upstanding guy... For the most part....

Ha! Ha! 

[charles]

So as long as yaw r buddies, its ok to buy papered dogs, breed them n then sell them, but not ok for others to do it? Even though not all the others selling papered dogs r doin it for just money, its wrong for them to buy n sell papered dogs? That sounds a lil double standard. as long as their in that clique, its ok, but if ur out of that circle, its a no-no to do it.
Even it u didnt mean for it to be interpulated like that, thats how it sounds, to me at least.

[KevinN]

Good lord Charles...

I'm usually better at communicating my thoughts....I think I failed this time.

Bryant said more or less what was going through my brain....what I failed to communicate:

"A dog being registered is not the problem...the problem lies with people buying those dogs and paying big money under the false pretense that just because they're registered that they are better than anything else."

THAT is what "astounds" me...with all the information provided on this forum...people still are paying, IMO, exorbitant amounts of money on a chance.

As far as "my buddies" I've got 2 friends that have papered dogs and neither one asks more for their dogs than most people do for non papered dogs.

"That's all I have to say about that" ~ F.G.

[hoghunter71409]

Well I waisted 5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back from reading this thread.  If you like papers...fine.  If you dont, thats fine too. 

[Reuben]

   For myself in my plotts, I know what is in their background for 7 or 8 generations & I can pretty much tell how a paticular litter is going to turn out. Do I still get culls? Of course, but show me somebody who dosent. Do I feel like I am over charged for registering my dogs, I do. But I will continue to register my plotts as long as they make me happy.
 
  Also remember that papers are only as good as the integrity of the person breeding the dogs.

an old saying that holds true =  the further back you can see , makes the future more easily predicted .

 I have both on my yard as I am not kennel blind and like the quote states predicting the future is made much easier by knowing the past . hand written or sent in to a registry is all the same . all the registry's do is allow a wider base of ancestors to be documented  . it doesn't mean every pup will fart a hog track just like in undocumented dogs . you don't want an association documented dog don't buy one , go get you a crossed up 8 way cross from them jammed up dogs that were accidents at best . I like a cross dog and have a yard full of them . and I like a pedigreed dog to form the foundation of the crosses . just me and the way I like it .

I agree with both of you...

I myself like mt curs but I have had a real hard time finding exactly what I like...crossbreeding two different breeds of dogs and then breeding back to the mt cur is how I did the first time and am following the same process now Parker/kemmer and back to some of my old mt cur line which is kemmer and original...

I don't care about papers but papers sell...

[Wmwendler]

I need a little paper every time I have a bowel movement.

[Bonnie_Clyde]

DSmith, all I got to say is Damn you are spot on!!!!!