Strait Catch Yellow Black Mouths. (Who is interested)?

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Interesting concept. Too bad that the "pits" are killers as well as "dumb" mentality surfaces in a pretty productive conversation....but this is the internet. It's true, most of the general public SHOULDN'T own a high drive bulldog anyway. They're not for everyone, but they sure don't deserve to be stereotyped as a whole as people eaters and untrustworthy and all that either. ANY dog (and I've done X-21's on MANY various breeds over the years of people biters) that's a man biter deserves a dirt nap period, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm currently working on a concoction of what will be RCD's here. I can relate when a lot of people don't particularly get it, but they don't need to. If this is something you want to do, and you're willing to feed and keep 'em, then go for it I say. My reasons were to add speed and stopping ability though, no just to eliminate the use of a bulldog as a CD.

Bulldog types even before used in combat as most of us know, were used as catching dogs on various game. Known for an unbelievably high pain threshold/tolerance. When I have a bulldog in hold on a hog, I KNOW that sucker will take the most painful beating of his/her life, and will still NOT let go until the hog is dispatched. (That's why bull is still a part of what my personal final concoction will be.) Will a cur, even a real gritty catchy one, hang in there and take a helluva painful injury if need be until that hog is dispatched? That would be my one concern.

Anyhow, good luck in your endeavor YBM. It'd be cool if you posted updates from time to time for sure. It'll be interesting if you do manage to breed and consistently keep the catch in the curs.

[Brad W.]

I've got a straight catch YBMC female that I love. She'll get out and hunt for the first hour or so of the hunt but usually stays within 50yrds after that until she hears a bark. From what I've heard her litter mates are rough but not straight catch and are long range dogs. When I got her she was used as a lead in catch dog so I'm still getting her used to going out and hunting opposed to hanging around me. She's built like a leggy male. I'm in the process of trying to get another one out of a similar breeding. She's out of a male named Tracker off Bob Cox's yard and a female name Lucky off Rodney Spivey's yard I believe.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

True points with valid concerns again.

Can we breed a YBM to the same tolerance  degree as a generation bred game pit?

Dunno.......  I feel we can come dang close if not hit the mark at a satisfactory level. Hell we are already at a satisfactory level on first generation YBM that have not had any selective breeding accomplished.  

The only so called prototype second generation pup we have to form an opinion on is just now around a year old. He began extremely rough at a very young age 3 to 4 months and was attempting full catches on decent hogs shotly afterwards. By 9 months to a year he is full catch on 200 class hogs and has been knocked completely out once while hanging on. Unfortunately most of his littermates only reached a level of RCD. But the factors to consider with that was the dam. She was RCD not full catch.

I think as far as our timeline for judgment on pups....it will be much earlier than suspected.  By a year...if the pup has not formed a distinct full on catch pattern and had the metal tested a few times.....it will be categorized as RCD and either be utilized as such or culled....but will not be used in continued breeding for this.  

In any form......ie hunt,  bay or catch......a two year old or older dog should not be on the (Observation list)  
But I have my own deep set in ways on that late bloomer theory.  Hehe..

At the end of the day our goal is to attempt to create a YBM that can be utilized functionaly and pass genetically a solid reproduction to another generation of a stand alone catchdog. Either way a pair of these dogs will be able to shut down a freight train.  

[airduster29]

ok I cant resist any more I have to put my 2 cents worth in I think this is the perfect idea and I have been working at this concept for 15 years but to also have hunt with no lead in catch /

my experiences if you have several very rough curr dogs you can accomplish this with out a catch dog at all its no secret I hunt foundation BMC I have many dogs that will catch first and ask questions later but still have a lot of hunt to them and I purposely hunt this way, the down fall to my hunts is that the dog will range out and catch and it makes it harder to find or send other dogs to it, there has been many instances where I knew I had a dog caught on a big hog and the hog is trying to walk off with a new earring hanging

also in my dogs I have learned to send a young dog along with the original stike dog due to being young they will bay a little catch a little allowing the other dogs to tune in and pin point they adapt well and have learned to pin point from a single bark or even a hog grunting

yes I still have a pitt and it goes on every hunt and yes most of the time I still turn it loose only 2 time this last year I turned the pitt loose to the dogs baying both hogs broke the 400lb mark and still the currs were trying to catch

I know the foundation BMC has put a bad taste in many people but there is still some good dogs that have been breed right in my opinion and yes well have all read the many slandering post are they expensive yes are all of them worth it no a lot of people jumped on the band wagon and has almost ruined it all for all of us

I am just saying there is dogs lines out there that has targeted this concept for many years one of the dogs I have based a lot of my breeding on is Wrights Yellow Jacket (son of Weatherfords Ben) which I owned for many years till he died on my yard and yes he was a straight lead in catch dog I used him to catch hogs for 3 years before I retired him and never once heard him bay or even think about barking I also know I could turn him loose and he would go find a hog no matter how long it took or how far he had to go if you unsnapped him the next time u seen him he was caught , so I have used this blood and made severl different experiments in my days to try and put a little more bark back in and still catch hogs and still keep the hunt and in my opinion I still have not perfected what I want

not trying to sturr up anything up this is JUST MY OPINION

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Nah man not starting anything up at all. This is a complete open topic that all views are welcomed and considered.

We have bred for hunt, range and nose on all my YBM baydogs for years. Wanted to build on the old short range rough dogs that were common in the late 80's. Mainly due to the ever evolving hog. But already covered that point earlier so getting to my point........adding those specific traits was almost inevitable in decreasing gritt and brawn.

Kinda like trying to breed a cat to a dog.  Almost two seperate animals when you reach the extreme opposite ends of these traits. 

Along the way we accomplished a few rangey rough dogs but it quickly turned bad for us.....mainly due to terrain factors.
We started getting into the bay busters that had the nose and range but would try every hog that was brought to bay with the bite release mess.  Culled them all immediately.

Then we had several very talented dogs that were to gritty. In this thicket area we hunt....it would take us long amounts of time to get to the bay or get extra dogs to the bay.  One of any type of breed that finds and catches a surrnuff baddun by themselves or with other dogs attempting to help at two miles away over a river and twelve briar thickets a man literally has to get on his hand and knees to crawl into........typically wont last a season here. Along with accomplishing getting everything thing else killed as well.   Again this aspect just doesn't work in our terrain without devastating results.

This brings us back to the question at hand.  Just reverse everything that we are accustomed to in a YBM and breed backwards toward the other end of the spectrum. For it to work in the field....a combination of the two traits applied seperately has been a knock down...drag out winner winner chicken dinner.

Even though I stand on the other side of the fence from the Foundation bred dogs.......We are still playing on the same playground brotha .....Anyone that has done their part on attempted to add to or clean up the mess that has been left over from complete neglect and piss poor breeding standards ......has my respect and my ear anytime to cuss and discuss Yeller dog oligy.....Haha.

Another great point.

Now a twist...........Who owns a legit straight catch YBM gyp?  Let's see some pics and a lil background if you know it.  Seems these are the hardest to come across.  Not rough gritty..  Dont bark straight in hit gyp.

[DWEST]

YBM, my comment about age wasn't due to giving the dog that much time to prove its self.  It might be that long before you find the right hog, and the dog might have a lil self preservation still back in the gene pool. 

Not saying this is a bad thing, but if wanting to breed these catch or die trying cur dogs...that could lengthen the process...which people breeding "good dogs" at a young age might be part of the reason we all talk about the dogs of yesteryear...that's a whole other thread ;-)

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[airduster29]

I currently don't have a female to fit this exactly but I believe I can make it happen I do have a male this way for most part his name is hawk and I have a female that is close she is very catchy but have seen her bay at times when she shouldn't if I was wanting straight catch of course ( I think I can bred her back to hawk and archive this ) she has a litter on the ground now so it will take awhile but I will see what happens next time she comes in I will keep it posted

[airduster29]

this is the gype I will have to get one of Hawk

[TexasHogDogs]

Can we breed a YBM to the same tolerance  degree as a generation bred game pit?

Am proably gonna get pissed on, beat up called a cull, a yellow hater and everything else on here here which is far far from the truth but I can tell you.

That aint gonna happen in less than a hundred years are more of breeding even if it happens then which I highly doubt.  Unless you have seen one of these great great specimen of dogs in action and I mean real time fast lane best of the best in the world you have no ideal what you are talking about when it comes to a truly game bred dog from hundreds of years of breeding.  I don't mean to piss nobody off are even step on any toes here.  I may not know a ton about breeding these hunting dogs but I can hold my on weight when it comes to breed APBT with plenty proof .  There will never ever be another breed of dog that come anywere close to what the true game bred  APBT can take as far as dishing it out and taking it, atleast not in our life times  .  I don't know of any other breed that is more willing to die at their jobs other than our fine fallen military men and women of this country and a hand full of real heros in this world.

You cannot hold a intellgance confersation about what you have not lived are seen are had an real experience with "APBT"

Dumb , stupid , ignorant words use to describe a real true game bred APBT on here could not be futherest from the truth.  Now some of these mutts people are calling true game bred APBT these days yes those words just might fit to a T.

I wish you luck but without using a true game bred APBT in your breeding system its highly highly likely .

[TexasHogDogs]

I wish you luck but without using a true game bred APBT in your breeding system its is highly unlikely .

[TexasHogDogs]

What I just said does not mean that you do not have great dogs now and are breeding even greater dogs for their purpose, didn't mean to take anything away from your breeding program hope its not taken that way because I think its great what you are trying to do  .  Its just means in my opinion nobody will ever be able to replicate the pain tolerance, the hold and bite of the true game bred APBT at least not without another 100/150 years of breeding.

Till Death Do We Part.

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Can we breed a YBM to the same tolerance  degree as a generation bred game pit?

Am proably gonna get pissed on, beat up called a cull, a yellow hater and everything else on here here which is far far from the truth but I can tell you.

That aint gonna happen in less than a hundred years are more of breeding even if it happens then which I highly doubt.  Unless you have seen one of these great great specimen of dogs in action and I mean real time fast lane best of the best in the world you have no ideal what you are talking about when it comes to a truly game bred dog from hundreds of years of breeding.  I don't mean to piss nobody off are even step on any toes here.  I may not know a ton about breeding these hunting dogs but I can hold my on weight when it comes to breed APBT with plenty proof .  There will never ever be another breed of dog that come anywere close to what the true game bred  APBT can take as far as dishing it out and taking it, atleast not in our life times  .  I don't know of any other breed that is more willing to die at their jobs other than our fine fallen military men and women of this country and a hand full of real heros in this world.

You cannot hold a intellgance confersation about what you have not lived are seen are had an real experience with "APBT"

Dumb , stupid , ignorant words use to describe a real true game bred APBT on here could not be futherest from the truth.  Now some of these mutts people are calling true game bred APBT these days yes those words just might fit to a T.

I wish you luck but without using a true game bred APBT in your breeding system its highly highly likely .

Now we're cooking with peanut oil!

My sentiments exactly.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Probably right on the money.  Same scenario as trying to breed a YBM to herd sheep same quality as a generation bred border collie.  Might not win a blue ribbon with it.

But.......a comparable product that produces a satisfactory result.......Won't be a bad second. 

My worst case scenario visualized......would be to produce dogs that are same quality of what we started with. Which are doing almost everything we ask...except to reproduce the same traits continually and tighten up on locking power.

[jdt]

giver hell ybm , an old time hog hunter and bmc man told me his best catch dog ever was a bad to the bone hold till death straight yeller dog .

             they won't suit everbody ... but then again bulldogs don't either .

[Skrag]

I think a sure enough straight catch cur would be ideal. I hunt out of a boat a lot. Hunting the river and marshes you really have to look for a bull dog with real running gear to handle the mud and bluff banks. And even then he won't handle it like a cur. Let me know if you want to field test one in the mud. Lol.

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[TexasHogDogs]

I just got finished reading all of this wooo weee long.  You know Yellowblackmask it might can be done the part of straight catch but it is gonna take some years of breeding and breeding and culling hard hard.  The problem I see with it is like Mike said eairler .

The problem is... will the offspring catch also?

They are cur dogs.

If this is what you are breeding for straight catch then I would imagine it is going to be just like breeding pit bulls. Pit bulls were bred for gameness first and foremost and when you got that lined out you added the other skills from other lines of Pit Bulls you desired just like breeding these hog dogs.  But with what you are talking about you just want straight catch type Yellow Dogs so you would be concentraiting on nothing but Catch just like Gameness on a Pit Bull your main trait.  If it don't straight catch cull it and keep breeding the ones that do cull liters after liters and just maybe you can lock that trait in to were you get high perectage of noting but straight Yellow Catch Dogs.  I bet it could be done might take a good  while.  I think were you might run into trouble is the tolerance like you were talking about how much of a beating can these dogs take before they turn loose if you ask me that is another type of gameness and you are looking for it in those Yellows.  The other part of the deal is I think It would be a lot like the Bulldog game and breeding in other words you are going to have some that are going to make it and some that do not .  I don't think you could ever get it to were you have liter after liter of noting but catch Yellows.  

Then you got to worry about crosses after you get this family of straight catch yellows bred so tight you cant go anymore ,  ever think about that .  Its a big challenge big challenge and a rocky road but it can be done but as I said it would be a long long long time before they ever have any of the tolerance the ole fashion game bred dogs did . If you could just get a 1/4 of it you will be in big business..... It just takes time.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

 I don't think you could ever get it to were you have liter after liter of noting but catch Yellows.  

Haha.  That's the only thing I can be rest assured of brotha.

Haven't ever been able to find that top secret recipe to produce those no cull litters that are so widely available around water sources.   

Just an old East Texas boy with a intolerable curiosity.   Lol

[b.b.b kennels]

It's a given that you will never get the exact same bite force and hold as you would in a bulldog and one could argue that a cur would be more likely to release on a bad boar that's putting it to them  but that doesn't make a solid catch cur an automatic second pick. Say one has a straight catch yellow dog and a pit- both in top tier shape and in their prime. You jump a large sounder and get a bay-after-bay situation, which dog lasts longer and rolls to the next pig quicker? I know there's plenty of bulldogs that can be broken off on command and on to the next one. These are often owned by people who had to put a lot of hours into making that dog become automatic in this routine. If I'm looking at an 8 week old cur pup and an 8 week old pit and know that both will Most Likely catch hogs, I'm maybe not thinking about that "hold till death" moment when I might want a pit. I'm thinking how much less hassle it'll be having another cur than getting a pit bull.  Just my thought.

[Reuben]

It's a given that you will never get the exact same bite force and hold as you would in a bulldog and one could argue that a cur would be more likely to release on a bad boar that's putting it to them  but that doesn't make a solid catch cur an automatic second pick. Say one has a straight catch yellow dog and a pit- both in top tier shape and in their prime. You jump a large sounder and get a bay-after-bay situation, which dog lasts longer and rolls to the next pig quicker? I know there's plenty of bulldogs that can be broken off on command and on to the next one. These are often owned by people who had to put a lot of hours into making that dog become automatic in this routine. If I'm looking at an 8 week old cur pup and an 8 week old pit and know that both will Most Likely catch hogs, I'm maybe not thinking about that "hold till death" moment when I might want a pit. I'm thinking how much less hassle it'll be having another cur than getting a pit bull.  Just my thought.

that is a good point...but if the hog breaks bay and the yellow catch dog goes a mile or 2 to catch and if he truly is a dog that throws caution to the wind there will be 2 things that can shorten his career...heat exhaustion from being caught too long or getting cut down...any second can be fatal and it could be an hour or 2 before someone can get to the dog...

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Another point I have to reset my brain to. 

For strait catch lead in YBM we do not want one to roll out with baydogs if the hog breaks. Very short distance and return.

For RCD roll out to a manageable distance and drop out of race.

For Baydogs.......stick till it stops or stopped. 

All of these scenario's are for the ultimate safety of our strikedogs.

Have to compare every aspect with the catchers as to a lead in bulldog.