Opinions: at what age is a "pup" no longer a "pup" and a couple other ?'s

[justincorbell]

It seems as though there are as many differing opinions on this subject as there are different breeds used to hog hunt. this is a question based on individual opinion alone and I honestly don't believe that there is 1 right answer. It is a well known fact that certain breeds and even individual lines within a breed develop and mature at different ages. So at what age do each of you as hunters quit calling a dog a "pup"?

At what age do each of you as hunters pull the plug on a dog due to lack of performing at the level you believe it should be performing? (once again this is opinion based and dependant on individual breeds/lines of dogs.......just thought it would make for some good conversation)

Who here practices the quick turnover method keeping the fast starters at an early age and who practices the slower method letting a dog get some age on him before making any decisions? and why do you do it the way that you do?

For myself personally, I prefer the fast lane approach, keep the best of the best very early on and put the time into them from an early age. No real reason other that Im getting to the point where I truely enjoy hunting and working pups more so than grown dogs and numbers of hogs caught isn't as big a deal to me now as it was 4-6 years ago when we were tryin to catch every hog in the woods, I have considering multiple times here lately passing my grown dogs off to a select group of friends and just working the string of pups I have coming up........hard to get rid of the dogs that put pork on the ground though lol

Anyway, had some free time and thought this would be worth discussing.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Gotta love the old.....late bloomer discussion.

1 yr old is when a decision is made to stay or disappear. Usually call mine pups up to boot year and half. Typically when they quit squatting to pee. 

Plain and simple with me. 

Do it.....or don't .......sure ain't gonna beg ya. 

Feed, maintenance cost and effort is to high and to short supply to nourish a sand bagger.
If someone else wants to feed a non workin product till its 3 yrs old just to find out......it still doesn't work?  Ok go for it.

Have I culled some knock down drag out dogs that would have probably turned on later .....Yessir..prob so..

But I dont want that slow maturing trait to get be passed ...so would have culled anyway. 

Now if I got a pink nosed bob tailed Yeller ........now that's a different story. They will tell you when their ready. Lol. 

[justincorbell]

Gotta love the old.....late bloomer discussion.

1 yr old is when a decision is made to stay or disappear. Usually call mine pups up to boot year and half. Typically when they quit squatting to pee. 

Plain and simple with me. 

Do it.....or don't .......sure ain't gonna beg ya. 

Feed, maintenance cost and effort is to high and to short supply to nourish a sand bagger.
If someone else wants to feed a non workin product till its 3 yrs old just to find out......it still doesn't work?  Ok go for it.

Have I culled some knock down drag out dogs that would have probably turned on later .....Yessir..prob so..

But I dont want that slow maturing trait to get be passed ...so would have culled anyway. 

Now if I got a pink nosed bob tailed Yeller ........now that's a different story. They will tell you when their ready. Lol. 

well said sir, we are on the same page.

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

As mentioned, it all depends on the breed, and how much patience one has lol.

In GENERAL, I personally consider a dog that is under 2 years of age a "pup." My American Bulldog however, is just now getting mature in all aspects, and he's 3. 
We actually have to be careful in particular with some of our terriers, and a few bulldogs here and there, because sometimes they THINK they're ready to go all out at an early age, and we've got to keep them in check before they bite off more than they can chew, and potentially ruin themselves.

[Nash]

I have always liked early starters but most of my dogs don't do much until a year old. I have always looked at them as dog years compared to people. At a year old they should be doing about like a 8 year old kid. At 2, a 16 year old. They better have it together by then or they need culled.

[Mike]

I have always liked early starters but most of my dogs don't do much until a year old. I have always looked at them as dog years compared to people. At a year old they should be doing about like a 8 year old kid. At 2, a 16 year old. They better have it together by then or they need culled.

Yes sir... I agree.

I judge a dog between age 1 and 2... anything under 2 I call a pup.

[Rocking Y]

Gotta love the old.....late bloomer discussion.

1 yr old is when a decision is made to stay or disappear. Usually call mine pups up to boot year and half. Typically when they quit squatting to pee. 

Plain and simple with me. 

Do it.....or don't .......sure ain't gonna beg ya. 

Feed, maintenance cost and effort is to high and to short supply to nourish a sand bagger.
If someone else wants to feed a non workin product till its 3 yrs old just to find out......it still doesn't work?  Ok go for it.

Have I culled some knock down drag out dogs that would have probably turned on later .....Yessir..prob so..

But I dont want that slow maturing trait to get be passed ...so would have culled anyway. 

Now if I got a pink nosed bob tailed Yeller ........now that's a different story. They will tell you when their ready. Lol. 

well said sir, we are on the same page.

I'm about like y'all on this

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk

[Hutch33]

Good post.  I personally would call a dog under 2 years old a pup. When we work pups, starting at 8wks is just basically exposing them to different environments, sounds and having them become socially sound. Gradually turning play in to practice, like ball drive and correcting their bite skill. Pre training starts until around 7 -8 months, which is when I believe you can determine if the pup has the drive to become a working dog or not. At a year old, you should make your decision, and have a good trainable dog to work with.

[justincorbell]

Good post.  I personally would call a dog under 2 years old a pup. When we work pups, starting at 8wks is just basically exposing them to different environments, sounds and having them become socially sound. Gradually turning play in to practice, like ball drive and correcting their bite skill. Pre training starts until around 7 -8 months, which is when I believe you can determine if the pup has the drive to become a working dog or not. At a year old, you should make your decision, and have a good trainable dog to work with.

 I like what you said about exposure/ pre-training.......... I tend to get a bit jumpy with my pups and start em on hogs earlier than most but I make sure it is controlled to eliminate any issues that may arise. It may not be a big a part of what makes a hogdog a hogdog but I sometimes feel folks don't put quite enough emphasis on the exposure/discipline side of things, to us the world is a huge place, imagine what its like for a pup that has never left its yard and had the chance to experience things for him/herself. We live in a small semi- rural primarily farming community, almost every evening my little girl wants to go for a ride on our buggy so I kill 2 birds with one stone, I keep the baby happy but I also toss a couple young dogs in the bed and let em ride along. I think it helps them out quite a bit honestly, by the time they are ready to hit the big woods they know how to act when clipped in the bed of the buggy and they have been exposed to just about every critter that they may run into while in a hunting scenario from donkeys and cows to goats and chickens and everything in between. I have noticed a difference in the pups that I have done this with versus the ones that I did not do it with, its nice to tote a pup to the woods and not have to deal with him acting like a pup raising hell and fightin the clip all day.

Glad to see this thread getting some action, look forward to reading more.

[T-Bob Parker]

I have always liked early starters but most of my dogs don't do much until a year old. I have always looked at them as dog years compared to people. At a year old they should be doing about like a 8 year old kid. At 2, a 16 year old. They better have it together by then or they need culled.

Yes sir... I agree.

I judge a dog between age 1 and 2... anything under 2 I call a pup.

I'm in this boat as well

[Hutch33]

Good post.  I personally would call a dog under 2 years old a pup. When we work pups, starting at 8wks is just basically exposing them to different environments, sounds and having them become socially sound. Gradually turning play in to practice, like ball drive and correcting their bite skill. Pre training starts until around 7 -8 months, which is when I believe you can determine if the pup has the drive to become a working dog or not. At a year old, you should make your decision, and have a good trainable dog to work with.

 I like what you said about exposure/ pre-training.......... I tend to get a bit jumpy with my pups and start em on hogs earlier than most but I make sure it is controlled to eliminate any issues that may arise. It may not be a big a part of what makes a hogdog a hogdog but I sometimes feel folks don't put quite enough emphasis on the exposure/discipline side of things, to us the world is a huge place, imagine what its like for a pup that has never left its yard and had the chance to experience things for him/herself. We live in a small semi- rural primarily farming community, almost every evening my little girl wants to go for a ride on our buggy so I kill 2 birds with one stone, I keep the baby happy but I also toss a couple young dogs in the bed and let em ride along. I think it helps them out quite a bit honestly, by the time they are ready to hit the big woods they know how to act when clipped in the bed of the buggy and they have been exposed to just about every critter that they may run into while in a hunting scenario from donkeys and cows to goats and chickens and everything in between. I have noticed a difference in the pups that I have done this with versus the ones that I did not do it with, its nice to tote a pup to the woods and not have to deal with him acting like a pup raising hell and fightin the clip all day.

Glad to see this thread getting some action, look forward to reading more.

I definitely agree with you. I think early exposure makes a world of difference.  If all they know is their chain and the dogs around them daily, how can you expect them to act sane in a different environment?  Exposure and discipline makes for having a good handle with your dog in any situation, I think.

[kerreydw]

My opinion if there on my yard there running loose being pups my bay pen is less than 100 yards from my house if there not going and watching and showing interest by 4 months I'm loading my 22. We bay hogs constantly her the dogs are around it  none stop we keep 5lb pigs on up to 175 hogs with teeth . At 6 to 7 months there in the woods finding hogs. At 2 years of age there pretty good hog dogs. But yes they are still growing and are not mature until around 3years

[Reuben]

first time around I was interested in having a line of dogs that started early and were hunting pretty good by one year of age...I kept a diary on all pups to see who was the best all around for hunting and breeding and at what age they started hunting, striking and completing the race...I turned over the dogs pretty quick, mainly the females and I also bred them on their first heat when I knew what they were capable of...quite a few started pretty good at 10 months and by 14-16 months were doing almost as good as the big dogs...early on the high turnover rate was for a reason and that was to purify the gene pool for hunting qualities such as the ability to find game quickly as well as for early starting etc...etc...I also believed that in a pinch all dogs kept could be bred if needed but as like anything else to have the best one must have the highest standards...it is a good feeling when you can go in right behind the other guys and their dogs and strike a hog with your pack... 

I now have 4 pretty good dogs and 2 are a stepping stone for the next generation, one is useable once or twice and the 4th is a redbone x pitbull cross and he is not getting bred but I do need him right now as a hunting dog...I did have a nice little gyp that was in my plan to breed but her uterus burst when she was bred so I gave her away due to not needing her just for a strike dog...so in keeping a few dogs at some point all will be breed worthy at least for the next generation...and at some point one will be bred more so than the others...but moving in that direction slowly...not interested in spending the money to breed high percentages of high quality pups...I am more interested in having good dogs but always moving in the right direction...

one thing I really like about this site is all the good info we share...and hopefully the standard of the average hog dog will be higher because of this knowledge...thus less culls 

The size of the breed seems to dictate more on what the age at one year a pup is in human years...strictly my opinion...a 1 year old great dane is like a 13 year old kid and a one year old 55 pound mt cur is about a 17 year old...

at 10 months I more or less know if a pup is a keeper and by 12-18 months will know if he or she is truly one that can be bred...at times one will know at 6 to 8 months if a pup is at the top of the scale for most of the qualities one may want in a hunting dog...we may not know for sure but we can have a good idea...

Justin/YBM...I agree with what you guys said...

[Rocking Y]

My opinion if there on my yard there running loose being pups my bay pen is less than 100 yards from my house if there not going and watching and showing interest by 4 months I'm loading my 22. We bay hogs constantly her the dogs are around it  none stop we keep 5lb pigs on up to 175 hogs with teeth . At 6 to 7 months there in the woods finding hogs. At 2 years of age there pretty good hog dogs. But yes they are still growing and are not mature until around 3years

You sound about like my grandpa except he gives em 6 months. If they ain't finding by a year they get culled unless he just sees something in em that he likes and he gives em another 6 months to see if they come on with it finally. The old man keeps me amazed and I should probably start listening to him a lot closer than I do, he seems to keep me from getting in a bind with everything from horses and cows to the chickens we had around when I was little  lol

[JoshStokley]

I have always liked early starters but most of my dogs don't do much until a year old. I have always looked at them as dog years compared to people. At a year old they should be doing about like a 8 year old kid. At 2, a 16 year old. They better have it together by then or they need culled.

Yes sir... I agree.

I judge a dog between age 1 and 2... anything under 2 I call a pup.

I'm in this boat as well

Mr. Nash we talked about this the other day and Terry you know where mine are at right now.  I'm right there with yall on this one.

[mike rogers]

we've always seemed to say pups from about  year and half and down. Young dog from about year and half to 3.

[Reuben]

an above average dog is coming into his prime at 2 and in his prime at 2-5 years...a lot of it depends on the strain and or breed...

there is a line of progression at different stages of a pups life and if the pup is below it...it does not stay...all there is to that...JMO

[Nannyslayer]

With me it depends on the breed. Hounds better start showing me something pretty good at 1 year old or they are culled. I have more patience with catahoulas as most I've ever raised didn't start performing until around 1 1/2 years of age.

But once they turn a year old, I don't really consider them a pup anymore.

[t-dog]

I too think that exposure is all important. I don't usually take my dogs on live uncontrolled hunts before they are a year old. Just like a 16-18 year old teenager, they may be superior athletes and sound really sensible. But when they are all of a sudden faced with life or death adversity they still just don't know how to deal with it.  I have seen dogs that were doing everything right at 8-10 months old and were out of a long line of nice dogs, meet one of those rank dudes and get ruined. The cutting was severe true enough and they healed fine. Mentally though, they were as crippled as one could get. The littermates that didn't get wrecked before a year old recovered from bad cutting just fine. It was simply mental maturity. I like them to hit the ground on their first live hunt thinking they have been doing it for months and trying to be the lead dog. As for calling them a pup or not, it boils down to how much exposure they've had. Life happens and sometimes I don't get to put the time in one that I think gives them a fare shake on the culling curve so I give them the benefit of the doubt for a little longer. I also have a tendency to be more patient with dogs out of proven lines verses a random dog or an experimental cross. By the time they get that year old mark, I have a pretty good idea of cull or keep just from the mock hunting.