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barlow
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Jody, there is only ONE proper way to breed dogs. Since you're my friend I'll explain it to you. What you want to do is put the male behind the female and then he sort of climbs up . . and, well . . it goes on from there. Any more questions you'll have to ask Marci.  |
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Prey and Bay Dogs
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Reuben
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The definition of prepotency in a dog or bloodline means just that...breed that dog to a high percentage of females and you will get a high percentage of offspring that carry the dominant studs traits and will win on the track as expected for a high percentage of the offspring...We breed that same stud to a Bassett hound gyp and I reckon we will not have any offspring from that cross that can compete on the race track...
Breeding standard Airedale terriers will never produce a bluetick hound but one can produce an Airedale that hunts more like a hound...The standard Airedale was created from a combination of breeds which consisted of the smaller terriers and the Otter Hound...One can select and breed smaller Airedales and they will start to act more like the original smaller terriers used for creating the breed...and we can also breed the larger type Airedales which will start to express longer bodies and longer ears...This is because we are selecting for those traits and what will happen is that those traits we are now seeing are traits from the otter hound and those traits will now be displayed...because there will be more Otter hound traits they will act more like otter hounds...but who in their right mind will want to take the long road???I am not an expert in this but I have owned both types...especially if there are no others that would want to help in doing this...
One thing we all have heard or read is that all dogs come from the wolf and that includes from the weiner dog to the great dane and all breeds in between...so how could that happen if it weren't for intense selective breeding programs???We all know this didn't happen over a few generations...
If I wanted a bluetick hound I would get one...and even within a breed there can be big variations in size, color, hunt and grit among other traits so one can breed for a certain type of bluetick hound and still have a registered bluetick hound...
there are plenty of articles on breeding depression, some call it tired blood...to me that means that the bloodlines genetic make up is not as diversified because there are too many genes that are alike...some say that it should not cause problems if the selection process was done correctly...that might be true but unlikely...but in nature mother nature does not make mistakes...if a species can not adapt then it will become extinct...so only the strong survive to breed another day and this insures the well being of a species...
in the wild the coyote probably has been doing some family breeding and one needs to look deeper to visualize what has been happening...all coyotes in a certain location look alike because of the family relations...they have developed mentally, instinctively and physically as to what they are today...Mother Nature does not make mistakes when it comes to the selection of breeding specimens in a species...the offspring of the coyote will have to meet a minimum requirement to live and reproduce...if a pup can not survive the intestinal worms it will be taken out of the gene pool and those that don't have a resistance to parvo/distemper and other diseases won't live to reproduce...and when grown most species in the wild that pass on their genes had to be dominant to breed and that is part of the selection process...but we as dog breeders want to make sure all pups survive and we inoculate and worm the pups and do all we can to increase the survival rate and that begets more of the same...
a strain that is known for certain strengths or traits within a breed...and those are traits are those that deviate from the average specimen of that breed...happened because someone bred for those traits and had the know how to retain them...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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barlow
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Nice try! I've read that before. Are you quoting MacDuffie or Carnathan? The multiple question marks??? remind me of Howard Carnathan.
But seriously . . Is your point that you can start with two average dogs . . linebreed into infinity and improve them into world-beaters? Or are you saying that inbreeding leads to something called "tired blood" and will make them worse?
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Prey and Bay Dogs
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Reuben
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Nice try! I've read that before. Are you quoting MacDuffie or Carnathan? The multiple question marks??? remind me of Howard Carnathan.
But seriously . . Is your point that you can start with two average dogs . . linebreed into infinity and improve them into world-beaters? Or are you saying that inbreeding leads to something called "tired blood" and will make them worse?
Carnathan...I read his stories but he didn't have much to offer...MacDuffie...he must of had a photographic memory because he quoted others beautifully and he did have some good material...he did make some mistakes when he said what color of dogs he would have when her developed the Camus curs...it would have been alright if he would have owned up to it...people with photographic memories usually aren't original thinkers...he did write something that I thought was in his favor...that some great hunting dogs tend to be laid back until the tailgate drops...  ... just an easy way for me to write on account my English skills suck...  breeding dogs from an average line will mainly produce average dogs but we can slowly breed up or breed down...that is all I am saying... We all have different beliefs/ideas and theories...and I think it is a great thing...  |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Cajun
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Barlow, Just a little trivia but Archie Manning was the super stud of the NFL having produced two Super Bowl QB's in Peyton & Eli. They all say the youngest son Cooper was the best but he developed a disease that retired him from foot ball.
I also believe in looking at the parents who have produced the phenoms of the hunting world & that is your best chance, but it is also not a hundred percent that they can repeat it. Genetics are funny & dont always produce the same but I still think that is your best chance.
I think in order to produce great hunting dogs, you better have great hunting dogs in the pedigree. Can you get great hunting dogs by breeding two unrelated dogs? Of course, it happens all the time. Can you maintain great hunting dogs over 3 generations? Sometimes but probably not too consistently. This is where linebreeding on the better dogs increases your odds of maintaining what you have. Does it work all the time? No, but for me it has produced a lot of better then average dogs to great dogs.
In all breeding, there are a lot of traits that are easy to lose. Grit, speed, endurance, nose, etc., etc.
The main problem in breeding hunting dogs is everybody has different traits that they think are important. Some people do not like a cold nose dog & some do not like a rangy dog. Everybody has their preference. What is a great dog to some, might be a cull to somebody else & that is why we have such variation, even in the same breeds.
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Bayou Cajun Plotts
Happiness is a empty dogbox
Relentless pursuit
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Judge peel
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Great stuff on here fellas good points by all Just makes me wonder about most of the dogs out there couldn't of had this much thought put in them and yet some are great some are terrible I guess I just don't see the difference in good or great or maybe I just don't have a clue lol
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barlow
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There are lots of guys out there who've been breeding dogs, breeding good dogs and the occasional great one for many years . . way more than me. But this is a favorite subject of mine and I like to hear anybody's thoughts or methods. I've never been afraid to admit it if I find out I'm wrong or if somebody comes up with something better.
I was thinking about Archie Manning when I brought up Michael Jordan. Old Archie was that rare dog who shines on the field and in the shed. They certainly do happen. But I'd like to take a peek at his wife's pedigree . . I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out she was Johnny Unitas' half sister. Or Archie's cousin, lol.
Bud Lyon told me once about he and a friend hauling a big, blue Von Plott bred bitch to Wisconsin during bear season to breed to someone's Butch & Jill male. Turned out this male super dog had been injured and left at home so they bred the bitch to his brother who wasn't quite as good and had never been bred to. I guess one Butch n Jill dog is as good as the next, right? Anyway . . every pup from the litter made a solid dog or better. They got so excited thinking about how good they woulda been if old so and so hadn't been on the injured reserve list that a year or two later they took her and bred her to the male they intended to the first time. And every pup turned out to be a dud. As the story goes . . in the meantime this bitch had died or been killed or run over or something. Disgusted with themselves because they'd gotten greedy or overly ambitious and not just repeated the cross that worked . . they took a full sister of the now deceased, one time good reproducer and bred her to the first male they'd bred to because it was clearly him that was spreading the bear dog magic. And it didn't produce a single usable dog. That story kind of sums it up I think.
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Prey and Bay Dogs
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reatj81
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Dang Barlow you sure tell it in a way that makes realize I better get used to culls. I just been super lucky so far and had limited numbers of culls, not because I'm easily satisfied
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Reuben
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Great stuff on here fellas good points by all Just makes me wonder about most of the dogs out there couldn't of had this much thought put in them and yet some are great some are terrible I guess I just don't see the difference in good or great or maybe I just don't have a clue lol
Thanks JP...breeding better dogs requires lots of thought and a constant evaluation of the dogs to be bred or not... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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There are lots of guys out there who've been breeding dogs, breeding good dogs and the occasional great one for many years . . way more than me. But this is a favorite subject of mine and I like to hear anybody's thoughts or methods. I've never been afraid to admit it if I find out I'm wrong or if somebody comes up with something better.
x2...
I was thinking about Archie Manning when I brought up Michael Jordan. Old Archie was that rare dog who shines on the field and in the shed. They certainly do happen. But I'd like to take a peek at his wife's pedigree . . I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out she was Johnny Unitas' half sister. Or Archie's cousin, lol.
Barlow, Archie Manning has been brought up before and immediately my thoughts were the same then as now as yours were this time as well...the wife should have been mentioned and should of carried just as much importance as the sire...I liked Joe Montana and just maybe his juices didn't flow unless the woman was short with a small waste line, thick legs and big boobs... if that is the case then he was at a disadvantage in the breeding arena for producing great quarterbacks...  I went back to one of my earlier posts and after reading it I see where it didn't make sense in a section of what I wrote and it has to do with Archie Mannings example but I was using the greyhound for the example... There is a top of the line greyhound stud dog that has won all the prizes a great dog can win on the track...he also is proven as a prepotent breeder when bred to other high quality females that have won in the past...besides having a great pedigree he throws a higher than average percentile of pups that go on to be winners on the track... Now breed that great prepotent stud dog to the top 5 bassett hound gyps and see how many of the offspring make champions on the track...Prepotency is a great thing when used correctly...if one is to improve on a breed we have to be very critical in how we select to breed better hunting dogs or whatever it is we are into... it is like that old saying...I would rather breed to a second rate dog from a long line of great hunting dogs than to a great hunting dog from a long line of average to below average dogs... Cajun...I agree with you statement about your dogs are great dogs for you...but they would be a poachers worst nightmare...When I first started breeding the mt cur I bred for heart, early starting dogs with grit and nose...and the ability to wind long range and hunt to find game quickly...the few that got some of my dogs didn't know hogs ran that far or long because they had short range dogs...another used one of the dogs to strike off the boat but wouldn't turn him out...only the catchy short range dogs were turned out...there are many reasons why we will have a wide variation when it comes to hunting dogs whether it is coon hunting or hog hunting... Barlow you know that anyone who has 1/2 a brain will want to use the best we can have to start a breeding program...But to answer your question my answer is yes...we can breed better dogs fro average hunting dogs but who in their right mind wants to start there? ? the more the dogs are the same the harder it would be to improve them...but in my mind most dogs have slight variations in their gene pool so when they are bred and they produce 8 pups that look alike then we can use our knowledge and through that and testing as pups and in the field one can slect those pups that ineret the slight variations that we see as an improvement...but that is splitting hairs and that can be saved until one has about topped out in their line if they have already bred many generations... Barlow...keep it coming... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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When I was a young fella my pe paw and uncle did all that planning and evaluation that y'all speak of and let me tell ya they had some dang good coon dogs. And my other uncle was in to English pointers so I seen that to and I totally get the system with out some people being this fanatic we wouldnt have what we do. I truely beleave chance and luck play a bigger roll than most fellas want to beleave these are living animal not cars just saying.
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