Getting a dog to get out there.

[Judge peel]

Willbanks let me ask you a ? On your dogs do you have a certain line of dogs or several and what lines if you don't mind me asking I have several my self I have fl cur cat Ladner Jordan Kemmer east tx line and some mutts and crosses of my own liking

[t.wilbanks]

Willbanks let me ask you a ? On your dogs do you have a certain line of dogs or several and what lines if you don't mind me asking I have several my self I have fl cur cat Ladner Jordan Kemmer east tx line and some mutts and crosses of my own liking

Everything I have now is pretty much pups out of a few east Texas lines...  Lost my older dogs to pseudo rabies so pretty much starting over... You still gotta go through the bad ones, but when you get one of them that is good, you really got something...

[Reuben]

Peachcreek I understanding what you are saying. My friend got a high dollar high bred wright blood dog from wright himself and a pup from my red dog Ladner x Ben Jordan blood nothing special just average dogs that pup walks all over the better bred dog just saying. I have a trash bred mutt that will go miles has a nose for big boars he ain't perfect but I would put him against any dog win or lose just a dog of chance no one wanted I got him off the side of the hwy from a young lady. You can ask any one that has hunted with me. If I could afford the best bred dog I would still prefer the odd balls I guess that's just my style

I wouldn't own a high dollar wright dog for several reasons...but I would buy the right ladner pup from the right breeder because those dogs are bred to hunt...

[Reuben]

Its genetics... hunt, bottom and baying ability. I have pups and have seen pups that have not been handled or "trained" at all have more hunt and bottom than most "trained" older dogs. If a dog needs trained it dont need my dog feed and time. How many wild boars have you tracked for miles and once you found it ran it for a few hours until it bays? Until YOU can do that you are not training chit. All you can do is put them on hogs the rest is genetics. Either they have it or they dont. my two pennies on tha matter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

100 percent agree with your post...a well bred pup that has it in them can see the first hog in a pen at 2 years old and bay it like an experienced hog dog/bay dog...and take that dog to the woods and he is as good as his siblings that have done it for over a year in no time flat...it is because of selective breeding...breed it for several generations from related dogs and yes...you can get an very high percentage of good dogs...you just can't have kennel blindness and don't make excuses for the dogs...for me there is 2 kinds of hog dogs...those that are good hog dogs and culls...no in between...and of the good hog dogs not all are worthy of making breeding stock...we should breed a higher percentage of pups that make it with each generation until a high number of good pups are produced...it we maintain a high standard..

[Judge peel]

Ruben not knocking anything you said but you said the key word if they have it in them I had pups that would bay like champs at 12 weeks old pulling hair I didn't cull any all but one is in working homes and he is a house pet did I plan plan a long line of performers no just breed average dogs. But with out guys being extreme I guess no one would have what we have I guess

[ED BARNES]

You have to start with a dog that has a chance.  Once you have that, you still have to know what you are doing!  Blood dont bay hogs.  I can make ANY dog range the way i want them to if i have that pup from weening age, no whispering involved, anyone can do it.  A capable dog in the hands of a trainer that dont know what he is doing is going to be WORTHLESS!  Where a capable trainer can take a 'trash' dog and make a hogdog out of it.  Bottom is another topic. but yeah, ill go out on a limb here and say that bottom is about 50% training as well, or more accurately - your actions around your dogs can effect their bottom. Like someone said earlier, dogs are not computers.  Like kids, we do our best, but they are living breathing things with a brain and make choices.

[Judge peel]

Ed barns right on

[Mike]

Ed, enlighten us on how you would train the range and bottom on a dog?

You say "you have to start with a dog that has a change"... to me that means the genetics are there.

Take for example, a long line of short range, no bottom dogs... a line that's been bred 20-30 plus years. One that's never even produced a medium range dog and none that would ever stick with a runner more than an hour or so. How would you train one of those to be long range and run one 6 or more hours? I'm talking about one that will do it solo, not running with a pack.

I agree 100% that you can screw up a well bred dog, seen it time and time again.

[Judge peel]

One guys thought of good genetics may not be what some one else would call good at the end of the day we hunt the best dogs we can buy produce or train I say if a fella is happy with what he has than that would classify them as good genetics or good trained what have ya I could care less if they been bred by the same guy for 30 yrs don't mean there good or bad just means he has had them 30 yrs you could come hunt where I do and not catch any thing or I could go where you hunt and catch ten vise versa any dog can do it on any day just the better ones do it more often

[Mike]

One guys thought of good genetics may not be what some one else would call good at the end of the day we hunt the best dogs we can buy produce or train I say if a fella is happy with what he has than that would classify them as good genetics or good trained what have ya I could care less if they been bred by the same guy for 30 yrs don't mean there good or bad just means he has had them 30 yrs you could come hunt where I do and not catch any thing or I could go where you hunt and catch ten vise versa any dog can do it on any day just the better ones do it more often

Judge, I agree with you 100%... I'm not talking about good vs bad, or my dogs are better than your dogs.

The training vs genetics discussions have always interested me. I'm a 100% believer in the breeding/genetics behind a dog... you want a long range, cold nosed, endless bottom type dog, you don't get it from crossing two short range, hot nosed, no bottom type dogs.

[Coady Curbow]

I would love to know the secret of getting an average dog to go.  I always figured it was genetics.  I am used to carrying a pup hunting about five or six times.  If he or she ain't left and went hunting by then they gotta live somewhere else.

[Judge peel]

Yes sir mike I agree that two short range no bottom dogs on average won't produce a long range big bottom dog but if I took one of said pups gave to a guy that has longer range big bottom dog and spent the time with it on average I would say it would out perform its previous standards not to say it would do as good as the big bottom but better than it was going to be with the short range no bottom dogs just a thought and here is another thought from a simple man rangy does not mean better hunt the dog is just further away from you that is what my grand paw told me he ran dogs his entire life

[Judge peel]

This has been a good thread

[Bo Pugh]

i think bottom is bred in dogs maybe 10% to do with the trainer like if you keep driving up on young dogs calling them out of a short race they will eventually learn to do that on their own, but traiing one to stay on a track i dont think is no trainign involved its genetics, a bulldog has a big heart but their not going to run a 6 hour race they are not physically able just like a poodle is not either, dogs are bred for different purposes by different types of people and people like diffrent types of genitics in dogs, it is possible to pick a mutt up off the side of the road and it make a good dog but odds are against you on that but i have hunted with some mixed dogs over the years that have ran and bayed hogs but why waist all that dog food on a prospect you know nothing about where it come from when its to many other good dogs out there to get a pup out of. lifes to short to feed a number 2eater and dog food is to high

[Judge peel]

Bo Pugh the poodle is one of the oldest hunting dogs traced back to Germany refined in the 15th century the word poodle means water dog. Reveread as outstanding gun dog and retriever in the 16th century was the primary water dog in England till the spaniel there blood lines have been breed to the highest level money which we can even understand I bet one out of ten would make a hog dog

[t.wilbanks]

Yes sir mike I agree that two short range no bottom dogs on average won't produce a long range big bottom dog but if I took one of said pups gave to a guy that has longer range big bottom dog and spent the time with it on average I would say it would out perform its previous standards not to say it would do as good as the big bottom but better than it was going to be with the short range no bottom dogs just a thought and here is another thought from a simple man rangy does not mean better hunt the dog is just further away from you that is what my grand paw told me he ran dogs his entire life

That dog may range and stick with the good dogs, but you put him by himself and for some reason he is short range with no bottom...
Thats what ive seen in alot of the crappier dogs we used to hunt... I guess they just didnt get learnt right... 

[ED BARNES]

On page 1 I laid out how I get a dog to range far. One thing I didn't mention thst I see a lot- when you are wanting a young dog to go- you cannot be the center of his universe. I make sure I don't have a real connection to a dog until it's hunting the way I want. I see range as an issue of confidence, independence and pack order.  I think ALL dogs have it in them to hunt a half deep if that's what you want.
Bottom is more on the dog, I didn't say you could train for bottom, I said your actions can affect it! Usually in a bad way.
I have seen so many crossed up stray dogs make outstanding hog dogs that I am forced to the nurture side of the debate. Of course, like rueben pointed out you can't nurture a Bassett into being faster.

[ED BARNES]

On page 1 I laid out how I get a dog to range far. One thing I didn't mention thst I see a lot- when you are wanting a young dog to go- you cannot be the center of his universe. I make sure I don't have a real connection to a dog until it's hunting the way I want. I see range as an issue of confidence, independence and pack order.  I think ALL dogs have it in them to hunt a half deep if that's what you want.
Bottom is more on the dog, I didn't say you could train for bottom, I said your actions can affect it! Usually in a bad way.
I have seen so many crossed up stray dogs make outstanding hog dogs that I am forced to the nurture side of the debate. Of course, like rueben pointed out you can't nurture a Bassett into being faster.

[Reuben]

Yes sir mike I agree that two short range no bottom dogs on average won't produce a long range big bottom dog but if I took one of said pups gave to a guy that has longer range big bottom dog and spent the time with it on average I would say it would out perform its previous standards not to say it would do as good as the big bottom but better than it was going to be with the short range no bottom dogs just a thought and here is another thought from a simple man rangy does not mean better hunt the dog is just further away from you that is what my grand paw told me he ran dogs his entire life

That dog may range and stick with the good dogs, but you put him by himself and for some reason he is short range with no bottom...
Thats what ive seen in alot of the crappier dogs we used to hunt... I guess they just didnt get learnt right... 

some folks confuse a good me too dog with a good hog dog...put that no bottom, not much range to speak of dog with a hog dog that ranges out and finds hogs pretty quick...that has a lot of bottom and the lesser dog steps up and might go step for step with the hog dog...that is until it is hunting alone...

to find out what kind of hog dog you have hunt it alone...and if you feel confident that you will shoot a hog over the dog then you probably have a good dog...if it finds, tracks and sticks with a runner through thick and thin and brings the hog to bay then you have a good dog...I write these three sentences to describe what a hog dog is rather than try and write a book on what a good hog dog should be...

good dog handling just makes for a better dog...

some crossbreds make excellent dogs...

some mutts make excellent dogs...

but for me the best hog dog is one that is bred right so that it is the all around dog...one that can hunt as well as any dog that produces hogs and also looks good doing it...and it is a dog that reproduces a high number of hog dogs when bred to the right gyp...why not have it all when we can...

[Judge peel]

Here is a ? To the on going debate. How many of y'all would say longer range dogs find more than say a medium range dog. And far as big bottom north of ten miles 8 hrs where can you hunt those dogs