Might ruffle some feathers

[Txhoghunter]

This is one of the things that really gets me stirred up...people breeding crappy dogs then selling them off instead of doing what needs to be done with them. And not just breeders, "hunters" buy a dog, it wont hunt, so they sell it instead of cutting their losses, and the cycle continues. Why this happens I'll never understand, I guess everyones looking for the next best thing.  I think a lot of it has to do with everyone having different standards for what "good" dogs are   

[cward]

Well I don't sell dogs but I thank the dog breeder should honor the deal if he sold the dogs as hunting stock.. But I do breed my own working/hunting dogs..If you think about it alot of old timers they culled hard to keep there gentics right and to weed the bad gentic out...If you are a breeder and you  have culls man up and do what you are supossed to..A true cull will never leave my place...MY WIFE STILL FEEDS MY DOGS AND SLOPS MY HOGS...No she picks most my pups...

[JSEAY]

Got a couple messages about who this breeder is and I should have included this in the original post but the breeder I'm speaking about is in the Winter Haven, FL area which is in central FL, so most everyone on this forum wouldn't have to worry about this guy(just a small local guy).  Just wanted to clear the air about the general location.  Just chaps my a** that guys trying to get into the sport have to learn the hard way from these people.

[joe]

which friend bought these dogs jseay, i think i know who you are talking about. if so the guy has his own website and going there and seeing videos you can tell he dont know what he is doing

[Bryant]

Can't really fault the guys wife for trying...It was the thought that counts!

A couple years ago my wife overheard me talking to someone about wanting a new tracking system for my dogs.  About a month later at Christmas, I opened a box containing ten little bells that you clip to a dogs collar like I suppose they use on bird dogs??  I tried my best to show appreciation, and put them in a drawer in the garage where they still sit.  She tried, and it was her thoughtfulness in which I was most grateful.

With that said...be it dogs, vehicles or basically any other item someone might desire to purchase, there will always be someone out there mis-representing what they are offering for the sake of a dollar.  I've been burned on deals, just as I'm sure most people have but I'm a firm believer that in the end what goes around comes around.

[cantexduck]

bells.....I like that!!!


   The last thing my g/f would buy me is a dog. She always gets that look when I talk about a new one.

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

selling pups for $200 and up is crazy.

This is something that I disagree with.  It will be debated to the end of time.  Have you ever really sat down and figured what it cost to raise a litter of pups?  What is your bloodline of dogs worth for you to part with?  The list could go on and on.

[btpp]

i have been around hunting dogs for almost 20 years i don't think i know everything but if u think u can just go buy a puppy out of hog dog stock then ur wrong i would say that 80 percent of pups don't turn out i would personally never own a pup because of exactully what happened to u i have raised pups out of top dogs before and out of 9 pups one made a decient dog it is cheaper in the long run to go buy a year old dog and try it they r usually cheaper than a pup and u can try them right then and get rid of them if they don't work out.  i dont' know the situtation but if u expect pups to just go bay pigs that won't happen either u need an older dog to show them what to do and the pups may not be mature enough to start yet i have seen dogs that would not start hunting until almost two years old and then they make a heck of a dog so give the pups a chance they may turn it on this is just my 2 cents

[Scott]

i would say that 80 percent of pups don't turn out i would personally never own a pup because of exactully what happened to u i have raised pups out of top dogs before and out of 9 pups one made a decient dog

If you're consistently getting a 20% turn out rate, you're breeding the wrong dogs, I don't care how good the individual dogs are. Those 2 top dogs that only 1 of 9 pups made a decent dog...I'd say the 2 dogs bred were most likely scatterbred. There's quite a bit more to producing quality dogs than just putting 2 top dogs together.

[btpp]

thats why i don't talk on here much because people always have something smart to say i am done with this topic all i can say is my idea of a good dog and yours must be different those two scattered brained dogs have bayed more hogs than any other i have hunted with in 15 years

[Mike]

thats why i don't talk on here much because people always have something smart to say i am done with this topic all i can say is my idea of a good dog and yours must be different

  ... who had something smart to say?

[cantexduck]

i would say that 80 percent of pups don't turn out i would personally never own a pup because of exactully what happened to u i have raised pups out of top dogs before and out of 9 pups one made a decient dog

If you're consistently getting a 20% turn out rate, you're breeding the wrong dogs, I don't care how good the individual dogs are. Those 2 top dogs that only 1 of 9 pups made a decent dog...I'd say the 2 dogs bred were most likely scatterbred. There's quite a bit more to producing quality dogs than just putting 2 top dogs together.

  Scott,
   I think he is talking about 80% of dogs wont make a good one which is prolly pretty close. Look at the classifieds. People seem to think a dogs breed(plott,bmc etc) makes a good dog.

[jhy]

Don't forget the hunters/ dog owners. So many newbies think that u buy a hog dog and it is supposed to get out and do what they want it to do without any handling. The hunters who like to sit around the truck and drink beer are the worst for any dog especially a young dog.  I know that this isn't the case in this situation, but the uneducated hunter is more to blame than the breeders in most cases. I have personally gone and got dogs back from people who said they wouldn't hunt and with very little effort the dogs are finding and running their own hogs to bay. Sometimes in real long races. The dog didn't hunt for them because they never got off the fourwheeler or left the truck to walk the puppy in the woods. Pure Laziness and lack of expierience is mostly to blame. Not the dogs.

[txmaverick]

it was as much the buyer as the seller it sounds like, maybe i missed something but i didnt see where the dogs were guaranteed to be any more than pretty, i know from my yard for 500 all you would get is a started dog with no guarantee of anything other than "that the dog is healthy"

If you are breeding and 80% dont turn out stop what your doing and start over, i expect and most times get 80% that turn out good dogs with the other 20% at least being help dogs

"its the thought that counts" that keeps coming to mind here

many questions should have been asked and there are lots of details left out here i think
#1 how old are they
#2 how long has he had them
#3 what has he done with them (all these questions would be asked to the new owner) before you can tell if the dogs are "worthless"

[Look Fur em]

That is true jhy. Just like kids the more quality time you spend with your pups the better.

[Bryant]

The dog didn't hunt for them because they never got off the fourwheeler or left the truck to walk the puppy in the woods.

Respectfully, I'm going to disagree.  It's been my observation over the years that most people don't realize a good well-bred hunting dog shouldn't need to be walked in the woods.  Even with my young pups, I might walk them in 20 yards or so but after that they better get gone.

[txmaverick]

on the money bryant

[Hawkins]

My Aunt and Uncle have a Catahoula for a companion only. They wanted that breed and paid good money for it knowing it was going to be a yard dog. So, some people do like these dogs for non-hunting purposes.

The Wife had good intentions I give her that, something my wife would not do. But, like others have said probably research the breeders and do your homework when paying that kind of money for a dog.

My 2 cents worth 

[Monteria]

Huh? Huh? Huh?... who had something smart to say?

The post he referred to was misread.

.......my idea of a good dog and yours must be different those two scattered brained dogs have bayed more hogs than any other i have hunted with in 15 years

I'd say the 2 dogs bred were most likely scatterbred.

Scatterbred, as in random breeding, the opposite of line or inbreeding....... Not scatterbrained....... Your offended because you didn't read the actual words written.

[Monteria]

It should be noted that there will always be the unscrupulous AND uneducated breeders of pretty color and novelty. Some are out to make a buck on said novelty and will lie through their teeth to make that sale. Some don't know any better and truly believe that their progeny are performance bred simply because of the breed or pedigree. Regardless of reason, the result of each scenario is identical, the buyer expecting a performance animal gets screwed..... Don't think this dynamic is limited to Cats either. It holds true for any breed expressing even a single unique trait.

As long as there are clueless buyers out there, they will support the clueless breeders and, for the most part everyone will be happy. The issue only becomes evident when a buyer really did expect a performance animal. Because of that, we will never be able to rid the world of crappy breeders.

So what can we do? Exactly what we are. Speak out and educate. That's obviously not a perfect answer, it won't put pet breeders out of business, but it is certainly better than not.

Worst case scenario, one newbe, in the market for a couple of hogdog pups, reads THIS THREAD and as a result asks the perspective breeder when the last time HIS dogs, the actual parents of the pup, caught a pig was.

If the answer is "never but the grand parents were hog dogs", or "I don't actually hunt very often", or "all X breed dogs hunt, its in their blood", said newbe now knows to turn and run like hell!

If the answer is "last weekend for the stud and just before the gyp was bred" the newbe should start asking to see pictures or hunt with the parents.

And guess what, they know that too because of this conversation. Because WE as hogdoggers, users, and breeders of performance animals took the time to EDUCATE the general population.

At least that is the way it works in my lala land.

Steve