What do you and don't you know about pedigrees?

[CodysCatchdogs]

The point of breeding dogs is to make just as good of dogs as you need together. If not better dogs.
What you see in front of you is a result of that hard work and dedication you did to make the dog. May it be good or bad.
At least you can narrow down your results by knowing the dogs bloodline within the pedigree. Even knowing the dogs in that pedigree personally is better.
Breeders that use their dogs know it better than people that just breed dogs for money.
Breeders that work their own dogs, few and far between.

[CodysCatchdogs]

But like I've said 4-5 times now... I'm not questioning anyone's dog.
I'm calling out the ignorant people that misuse or do not understand Papers.
Papers in what they are really supposed to be for. Hand written or other wise.

[Judge peel]

Yep yep peds are just a ledger of breedings some think there gold some look at them and say that's fine. No biggie really. It's good to be passionate for thing you believe in and extra knowledge never hurst ether. I just don't drink the koolaide as they say

[Georgia-Hawgs]

I like a dog with a good pedigree, or a good set of papers, but Ive also seen non-papered dogs that will out hunt,  out find , out stop and out catch some of the papered dogs I've had dealings with. I'm a fan of reading up on dogs and trying to trace the blood back as far as I can with any available information. I've spent countless hours on the phone with John Wayne Ross just soaking up some good , solid information. That man can do some talking,  and to be honest I'm not much of a talker and don't really like to have the phone to my head that long. But he's the type of fella that I don't mind listening to because he's not full of b.s. and knows his dogs. And lineage. To me papers are like recipe's , and I'd sure as hell like to have popcorn sutton's moonshine recipe. .......       just saying. 

[Reuben]

I have seen papered dogs that couldn't smell their own butt much less a track and these dogs were used for breeding to make better hunting dogs...

I knew a papered dog that folks were high on because he was a very good bay pen dog but as a hunting dog he probably missed about ~80 percent of the hogs in the woods...he was a great me too dog because he would follow a good lead dog to hell and back if he needed too do so...but on his own it was a hit or miss and most of the time you about had to put him on top of a hog so he could find one...yet years later on this site I saw where some folks said they had grand pups out of ole so and so...

years ago someone wrote a column in the full cry magazine who also promoted a line and breed of dogs as hog and cow dogs...but he liked to run a walker dog in the pack when running hogs...

Pedigrees...I like to look at them and then store them in case I want to look at them again 10 years down the road...I won't spend money registering dogs...

but I do know that most of the time the right papers on the right dog can bring an excess of $40,000 but that same dog would probably only bring you $500 to $2,000 for the same dog without papers...

what really gets me is those folks that will pay the big money for that dog who then hires someone else to trial the dog...but they make sure to get their name on the cover of the magazines and websites...and no credit is given to the real dog person who bred that dog...once that dog is done they buy another dog and repeat the process...not much of a challenge when  buying the best...no need to train just campaign...

[CodysCatchdogs]

Did you know there are different bloodlines of dogs that people have bred generation over generation that makes them different and unique?
Certain people have bred Cur dogs to do nothing but win bay competition, almost breeding the hunt clean out of them.
Some bloodlines of Curs also do nothing but bay and circle cattle.
Hunting bloodlines... Etc.
Some of the dogs in each bloodline can do them all, depending on the individual.
No surprise goes to the dog that is a Bay pen champion but doesn't hunt a lick. Maybe he was bred that way, maybe he was one in a whole litter?
Sure is nice to study pedigrees and know what family of dogs your buying and investing in.
If you don't care then there is no room to complain.

[Reuben]

right now there is another thread on a walker...and they have her pedigree posted...besides having the right look to her she has an awesome pedigree so the potential is there to reproduce some of the greats that are in her pedigree...by the sounds of it she is on her way as well...I am not a walker man but I sure do like them and has seen a few that were top notch hunting dogs...I do recognize quite a few of the dogs in her pedigree such as Finley River, Lippers Stylish, Sackett, Bawling Banjo etc...those names were well known way back and are still well known today...there are other champions scattered throughout the pedigree as well so that tells me she brings quite a bit of value to the table...she is a good looking gyp...she has some good hunt to her...and she has a very good pedigree to back it up...

this is a good example of a good pedigree and why they can be very valuable...

When I look at that pedigree I am reading a story that is buried in that pedigree...

NITECH...a hunting dog...a dog that ranges out quick...prefers a hotter track....locates and has the meat rather quickly...that I do like
sure there are extremes but the idea behind words NITECH is a good one...

[CodysCatchdogs]

Exactly Rueben.
You know a lot more about Walkers than I do!

[Shotgun wg]

I had no idea of how that walker was bred prior to getting her papers in. The friend that told me to come get her and her sister did not know either. I got rid of the sister after about 5 months which put them at 10 months. I did not like her and do not think she will ever make the dog June is. I gave her to cole simply because he needed a dog and I am unable to work her the way she needs now. He had no idea of her breeding either. Papers are great and do give a man a general idea. They are best when u don't know the man or dogs that produced ur pup. If u have seen the generations leading to and hunted with them papers don't mean much. Growing up I knew nothing of papers. Simply because all the dogs we ran were swapped and bred by dog men in the area. Heck most of the dogs were line bred without knowing because the breeding dogs often came from the same place the pups went to make the next round.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[Cajun]

Papers are great, but that Walker was bred to be a coondog, not a hogdog. Nite champions are a dime a dozen & I have seen plenty that could not tree their own coon. A pretty slick handler that knows the rules can make a nt. ch. dog. Grand nite Ch. are different & so are the PKC money ch. That is when they bring out the big guns.
  Shotgun, what did you not like about her sister, just curious. the fact that she made a hog dog is to her credit & not necessarily due to her pedigree which is coon breeding. Her sister for all we know might make a coon dog.

[Reuben]

Cajun...I have seen plenty of coon bred dogs that have made better hog dogs than the average hog dog...I have seen plenty of mt curs that are as good as a dog can get for hog that were coon dog bred...

now that I am getting back in I couldn't find a decent line of mt cur so I have a Pocahontas bred plott in my yard right now ready to drop some pups...I went that route on account she is a proven hog dog out of mostly bear dogs...I don't need more than 1/2 plott...

There is no doubt you plotts are bred for hog and bear and I know you catch a lot of hog with them...and it makes perfect since to buy a pup of that type of breeding when the opportunity is there...

if you look at the walkers pedigree it is filled with GRNITECH...I was talking Nitech in general...there are lots of negatives in the night hunts as well as in many other dog sporting events...for me the best way is to breed your own...second best way is to buy from a long line of hunting dogs that are proven...

 

[UNDERDOG]

What did you breed the plott to Ruben?

[Cajun]

I hear you Rueban. I have seen good hounds in all breeds but my point was the dog was bred for coon hunting & I was not knocking her at all. Im just saying you have a much better chance of getting big game dogs out of big game stock. The fact that you cannot find the Mtn. curs you like proves this out as most of them are bred for squirrel & coon. Robert Kemmer's line off of Golden Nugget were good big game dogs.
  When I first started with Plotts, I thought they were the sorriest breed around. Most of the Plotts I was trying were coon dog bred & I could not find one that would stay bayed by itself. Even went through a lot of bear bred plots before I found what I wanted & they don't suit me all the time.lol
  Hope you have good luck with your 1/2 plots. Sometimes it is easier to get hogdogs by crossbreeding.

[Reuben]

Thanks Cajun...

The sire is mostly gold nugget bred kemmer with a touch of pitbull...

Cajun...I used to run gold nugget with texas smoke mt cur...big fast hunting dogs y hat could shut one down...I liked both lines but the texas smoke dogs were pretty rough...

[Reuben]

If the pups do good I will breed brother sister or to their uncle...not looking to develop a long line of dogs just breeding to get a few hog dogs that dont require a catch dog to catch hogs...

[Shotgun wg]

I don't know what it was about her sister but I just didn't like her. The sister bayed first when I put them in a pen. The sister would go on out a ways as a pup. But I just could not make myself like her.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[Nannyslayer]

I've thought about this for awhile, and I've decided I need to start my own line of papers called the RCDCMA (Registered Curr Dog Cross Mutt Association) the way I like to cross breed.  Heck, who wouldn't want a registered 1/2 Catahoula, 1/4 BMC, 1/4 pit?   

[charles]

Papers are only as good and true as the person doing the breeding and the registry honoring them. Yes, a ped is good way to see the past, present and potential future of the dogs. Iv got 3 papered dogs but iv gotten to where them papers are as usefull to the hunt of a dog, as a roll of used toilet paper. In order to trust the accuracy of the papers in hand, u have to trust the breeder and registry, which is why if i hav a litter out of papered dogs, i trade them for dog food or $50

[CodysCatchdogs]

Normal comments.
Take the time to read what The whole post was about.
If you cross bred dogs, Wrote down their lineages, knew the dogs it took to make them... Then you've made calculated breedings and know the pedigree.
Or you just threw stuff together and got a good dog.
Papers are a tool, not a weapon.
Yes you have to trust good reliable people and even then the dog's not promised to be all he is bred to be.
That goes for any animal or human.

[halfbreed]

   lol  just to defend my beloved walkers to you hog hunters remember this , A TREE DOG WILL BAY , BUT A BAY DOG WONT TREE   .   those ol coon bred dogs will handle anything on the ground and handle it well if it wont climb .