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oconee
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« on: October 15, 2015, 11:37:33 pm » |
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I just wanted to get an ideal how many guys are using RCD's nowadays. Years ago I had never even heard of them but this style of dog has really seemed to be popular lately. What breeds or crosses seem to make the best RCD's and how many of you guys are currently using them In your pack?
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Judge peel
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 08:08:26 am » |
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I got a few that are straight catch all tho I would call them rcd to cd implies that it will catch no matter what. I got three that catch pretty much on any hog at any time but have bayed before not for long but none the less have done it that's why I won't call them cd or running catch dogs even tho that's how I use them. Mine are straight cur and cat x fl cur I don't like a pit crossed dog they can be great I just don't care for them. Depending where I am hunting I put a loose dog on the ground with two monsters and hold a cd on a lead with the rough dogs I very seldom need the bulldog but it's a good habit to always carry one no matter what dog your hunting you wouldn't want to get a good dog killed cuz you didn't bring one. Mine are short range and have ran hogs past 2 miles out caught so you can't be picking your nose you best be getting after it or not use this type of dog. Many time I will take two loose dogs and when they bay up I will thro one one the ground to investigate the hog lol. I know most would never do that but I do
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hoghunter71409
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 08:46:52 am » |
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Alvin,
I have and can use my dogo as a RCD- although I don't prefer to do it this way and I use him as a lead in CD 99% of the time. I only use him as a RCD if I am trying to shut a hog down on a very small piece of property and I typically only use him with my old cur dog or with my Joe dog on what I know is going to be a big boar or barr hog. For example, I hunt a piece of property that borders an Army post and the boundary line from the lease to the post is not fenced. I will turn my dogo loose as a RCD in this scenario because I am trying to eliminate any chance of the hog breaking and running across the border. My dogo is tall and lean and can run most hogs down in the open and he will catch and hold until he cant hold not more (tired or death). I wont use him as a RCD if I don't think I can get to him within a few minutes. Having him caught on a rank hog 400 yds or further with no easy access is not my intent. I would also tend to use him as a RCD in big clear bottoms versus high and dry pine sapling thickets. I also would hesitate to use him as a RCD where he may have to swim many creeks if the hogs breaks.....for these reasons, I use him mostly as a lead in CD and oh by the way, I think he would sustain too much damage and his life span would be much shorter if he was always used as a RCD. Important for my scenario is that one of my dogs is rough enough that he is going to catch most hogs by himself anyway, no need for me to have a CD running along side him.....as long as the bay dog know when to back up and wait for help.
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Black Streak
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 08:53:52 am » |
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I don't have what most refer to on here as RCD's. What I have (most of what I have) are finder holders. They don't bark or hhesitate to catch. Their is no bay dog blood in their lineage only breeds of dogs in their background that are hardwired as straight catch. It is my opinion that is why Dogos are largely so iffy and not consistent as a whole as solid catch dogs. Their breed is comprised of a few different dogs that are not catch dogs. However, lot of them are great catch dogs but many are not. From what I've read on them, they were developed to hunt in the same similar style I hunt my dogs though.
The finder holders I hunt with work very well as duel purpose dogs. Hunt the woods, brush, rough terrain etc as finder holders and they also can be run as stags when doing crop work. My stag is faster than my finder holder dogs but not by much. They are fast enough that they work very well when paired with a stag running accross fields because they are right there to cut the corner when the animal cuts on the lead stag and make the catch just the same as the second stag will do. Got to be fast enough to be in position to cut that corner when the lead stag causes the animal to cut to the left or right in order for the second dog to be effective. I'd venture to say most Dogos or mastiffs or other type dogs would not be fast enough to capitalize on the way a stag operates. The stag in that case will normally catch the pig itself or cut the pig so many times the other dog can catch up and assist. My finder holders essentially nullifie the need for stags to do crop work because of their speed. If the woods surrounding the fields are still your permission, the hunt ain't necessarily over with finder holders once you have caught a couple pigs in the field and the others have vacated the field. Get the dogs in the woods and let them start hunting with their nose and catch yourself another.
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Black Streak
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 09:10:15 am » |
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I wasn't talking down on the Dogo, I have a very healthy respect for them. I was just doing my best to draw the distinction between them and the dogs i run. From what I've read on the creation of the Dogo, they were intended to have a similar hunt style as the finder holders I run. Figured I'd better clarify before it was taken the wrong way  |
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Reuben
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2015, 09:38:07 am » |
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I don't have what most refer to on here as RCD's. What I have (most of what I have) are finder holders. They don't bark or hesitate to catch. Their is no bay dog blood in their lineage only breeds of dogs in their background that are hardwired as straight catch. It is my opinion that is why Dogos are largely so iffy and not consistent as a whole as solid catch dogs. Their breed is comprised of a few different dogs that are not catch dogs. However, lot of them are great catch dogs but many are not. From what I've read on them, they were developed to hunt in the same similar style I hunt my dogs though.
I agree...a dog that catches sometimes and bays at other times is not a catch dog...and a 50/50 chance of getting a catch dog is not good odds...I feel the same about stock dogs...not saying there aren't good ones out there but I want to up my chances of having a top hunting dog... Changing gears I saw years ago that the future hog dog will be more of the RCD or holder types out of necessity ...and silent dogs to keep from waking up the residences that are popping up all over the country side...the land tracts/ranches are getting smaller...I want dogs of the type I like but with enough grit to operate almost as running catch dogs...with the GPS technology it is doable...keeping the races quiet and as short as possible is the future...actually in lots of cases the future is now... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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labaconchaser
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2015, 10:18:04 am » |
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I occasionally run a dogo/pit on the ground as rcd with my little jagd deadly combo lol I will run him with my curs when on small properties to shut down any races has seemed to work good most of the time pretty good success rate
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them trashy dogs done bayed another hog!!!
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jstankus
Bay Dog
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Posts: 99
Cracker Curs
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2015, 10:18:27 am » |
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From my experience my cracker curs are find and hold, sometimes they will bay a large hog 300lb range until they here us walking in and then it's on, but they are straight find and hold otherwise. What are stags? I hunt north Florida not familiar with them.
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Sambo5500
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 10:43:28 am » |
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I have what most would call a RCD. I just call him a hog dog! He is basically a catch dog that will hunt. Pit x cur. I use to always run him on the ground as a straight RCD but have gotten a little wiser with him after the amount of beatings he's taken. If I'm hunting long range loose dogs I'll just lead him in. With short to medium range rough dogs that I trust will also catch I will run him loose as a RCD. I can also hunt him one out finder holder style and he will find catch and hold. He has caught over 50-75 hogs of all sizes.He's probably struck 10-12. He's about 3 and weighs 55#. Great all around dog. He is also very good during crop season either finding his own in there or shutting down the races before they get started in the crops.
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Black Streak
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 11:14:24 am » |
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Stags are not a recognized bred (thankfully). They are generally a combination of greyhound and deerhound, not necessarily a F1 cross but their own kinds breed really. They are very well known among the coyote dogmen fraternity and often used to run down and kill coyotes. Problem with them being used on pigs is often times they are not hard enough to be 1 out dogs on the largest of boars but now and then you come across one that is. However, they usually work very well in pairs. The stag I have is as hard as a pit. He is crazy hard and uses his nose a little. Stags are not bred by the coyote guys for their nose though but have such an incredible prey drive that it's not to difficult to get them to where they will wind hogs from a short distance off. They are about as fast as a grey hound and often times the coyote guys make claims that some stags are faster than some greyhounds. Their prey drive is incredible with the if it runs it dies mentality. Their trigger will trip instantly when something runs so they are hard to get just strictly to focuse on one prey item only. Coyotes, deer, rabbits, pigs etc are all on the menu if you don't watch it. Even frogs and birds. Great fun to have and watch run pigs down but really need to use them with caution. This is just a generalized summery of the breed, not individuals. My stag runs around the yard with my chickens and doesn't pay them any mind. He isn't to keen now on wanting to kill deer now either. They often times will not come when called but rather wait on you to come to them. Often times they are only a one person dogs and not really over affectionate with stagers but aren't agressive. Very very different personality over all than a cur. Lot of other pros and cons to them also but you either love them or not. Mine is very very laid back and respectful, almost regal acting and looking often times when their trigger isn't tripped that's how they are untill it is.
In an effort for the coyote guys to get a perfect dog that destroys coyotes easily, single handed, they will sometimes add in a litte this or that and then breed away from it. Some might add a little pit, some might add in a little wolfhound but then breed away from it to get a stag that's hopefully a coyote destroying machine on its own.
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Reuben
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 11:34:15 am » |
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Mine is very very laid back and respectful, almost regal acting and looking often times when their trigger isn't tripped that's how they are untill it is.
In an effort for the coyote guys to get a perfect dog that destroys coyotes easily, single handed, they will sometimes add in a litte this or that and then breed away from it. Some might add a little pit, some might add in a little wolfhound but then breed away from it to get a stag that's hopefully a coyote destroying machine on its own.
In my experience the great dogs have that regal and laid back look to them until the tail gate drops... years ago the greyhound folks were concerned that the dogs had become shy and skittish and many had lost the high prey drive...A geneticist was hired to fix the problem and after doing his research he found that the english bulldog was the fix...he did make one mistake...he said it was going to take 3 to four generations to see good results...it actually to the first cross to see results...I new could figure out why it was a dog so different from the greyhound to actually be the fix...but as I learned more about dogs and breeding I have developed a theory...the English bull dog deviates so far from the norm that it would take much to get him pulled back in to what is more normal...so the traits exhibited must be mainly made up of a bunch of recessive genes paired up together... I like the idea of game bred leggy pitbull x greyhound...have seen them years back in south texas...looked like greyhounds on steroids... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Black Streak
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 11:53:00 am » |
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Several things help a finder holder keep themselves damage free. The first is in the manner in which they are hunted, only by themselvesor with another finder holder, thats it! Second is their body structure.
long neck and 28 inches or their abouts, taller the better to a point. Long neck and length of body allow the dog to run in a vest that just covers the neck and shoulders. When they are holding a big boar by the ear, the boars hardware can just barely hit them in the front of the shoulder and can not hit them behind the shoulder ( unless the dog gets waded up which is unusual )
Their height helps them keep their footing and control the pig. Example when the boar loads up and thrusts his head up, the dog isn't knocked off its feet. Usually once the dog has caught, the boar can't even hit the dog in the shoulder, only the neck but the height of the dog and it's length of neck allows for it to only absorb the last little bit of the upward thrust. This doesn't hurt the dog and doesn't knock it's front feet of the ground which allows the dog to continue its dance very well with the pig. The athletsism of a good finder holder is a big key to allowing it to hold safe. The big dogs are very quick and agile and do well in tight quarters and can juke and jive well, all while holding the pig. The dogs strength and power combined with its agility and quickness allow it to control the pig well and keep itself safe when in tight quarters. The boar can't rake the dog off and or get it in a bind very easily because all this combined with the dogs power enables the dog to pull and turn a big away from obstacles the boar is trying to use to rake the dog off with or wad the dog up against so he can work the dog over. Of course to get a finder holder to this point in his career takes little steps of progression and experience but the dog has the tools and natural ability to keep itself save with minimal protective gear which allows the dog to stay cooler and more mobile.
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Black Streak
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2015, 12:01:02 pm » |
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Mine is very very laid back and respectful, almost regal acting and looking often times when their trigger isn't tripped that's how they are untill it is.
In an effort for the coyote guys to get a perfect dog that destroys coyotes easily, single handed, they will sometimes add in a litte this or that and then breed away from it. Some might add a little pit, some might add in a little wolfhound but then breed away from it to get a stag that's hopefully a coyote destroying machine on its own.
In my experience the great dogs have that regal and laid back look to them until the tail gate drops... years ago the greyhound folks were concerned that the dogs had become shy and skittish and many had lost the high prey drive...A geneticist was hired to fix the problem and after doing his research he found that the english bulldog was the fix...he did make one mistake...he said it was going to take 3 to four generations to see good results...it actually to the first cross to see results...I new could figure out why it was a dog so different from the greyhound to actually be the fix...but as I learned more about dogs and breeding I have developed a theory...the English bull dog deviates so far from the norm that it would take much to get him pulled back in to what is more normal...so the traits exhibited must be mainly made up of a bunch of recessive genes paired up together... I like the idea of game bred leggy pitbull x greyhound...have seen them years back in south texas...looked like greyhounds on steroids... I understand what your referring to in a good dog looking and acting regal but what I'm referring to is that gentlmen deerhound ora and royalty appearance in their posture. Only way I can best describe his posture and attitude when he casually stands or lays down with his feet crossed and his head up is regal. I am very sure this look, posture, and personality come from the deerhound mostly. But yeah I get exactly what your talking about in the confidence a laid back sure enough badazz dog carries himself with. That too is very majestic. |
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jstankus
Bay Dog
Offline
Posts: 99
Cracker Curs
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2015, 12:37:29 pm » |
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Thanks for the info, I grew up on a grey hound farm. From our experience it was always to risky hunting them because they break limbs so easily. But never really thought of crossing one.
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hoghunter71409
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2015, 12:39:42 pm » |
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Black Streak- can you post a pic of one of these Finder Holders? Better yet, maybe you could start a Finder Holder thread so this one doesn't get high jacked.
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Black Streak
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2015, 01:07:43 pm » |
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No i can't post pictures on this forum eventhough i have a photo bucket account. I dont have the option to formate them in the way i apparently need to to get them on this forum. I suspect it's my phone that won't allow me the option but my phone is all I got.
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oconee
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2015, 01:32:29 pm » |
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Text me some pics. I'll post them for you. (580) 258-0206
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Black Streak
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« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2015, 02:05:49 pm » |
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Text me some pics. I'll post them for you. (580) 258-0206
Ok |
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Pwilson_10
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2015, 02:15:03 pm » |
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See black hawk see how nice OCONEE is see he is helping u out
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oconee
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2015, 02:30:08 pm » |
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Yea I'm not too bad of a guy. Ha ha ha
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