Running Catch Dogs

[Black Streak]

I know some people across the pond that use greyhounds for hogs... Pakistan and Afghanistan. Really pretty incredible dogs... They may have a bull breed somewhere in there on some of the dogs, but some use straight greyhounds and seem to get the job done. None the less, a really interesting animal. Not exactly a fan of how they do it over there, but interesting nonetheless. Good find on that literature there Ruben!

I have seen in pakistan and other parts of the middle east where they use Saluki's. They are incredible if you ask me. They look very similar to a greyhound just have about 10x the stamina. There are tons of video's on youtube of them hunting antelopes and gazelle with them. Amazing speed and endurance they have.

That region of the world is were the Saluki stems from.      Some strains such as the desert dogs of the bedowins do not have the feathering.      I haven't seen the video so i ain't gonna say they aren't greys but if I was a betting man, I would bet they are no more than 1/2 grey if indeed they do have grey in them.

[dodo1987]

My question is do you like your rcds to find there own or just run with your bay dogs

[Reuben]

I have seen some that were excellent hunters with a ton of grit...enough that I knew I didn't want any of that type...they were mt cur crossed with pit bull...every now and then you would get one that was about the right balance of traits from each parent...but most didn't live very long...the mt curs were from my line I used to keep...

I don't want a RCD or Lurcher type but I do want a great hunting dog with just enough sense to not be suicidal...catch enough to stop one and back off if the hog will keep still and when I get there I can call the dog to back away or I can give the command to catch it again...that is the goal...the average sight hound probably won't have the nose or the ability to find and stick with a bad runner in the thick thick briar patches and thick cutovers...

[liefalwepon]

I'm facing that dilemma now, I'm leaning towards rcd help dogs and one med range cur to strike. I walk hunt and the country is too steep to get there fast if you have multiple hogs caught in different directions or too far away


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[Black Streak]

Probably best that you guys stay away from them.    If you don't understand them and how to use them just don't get them.       If your getting them killed, your doing something or multiple  things very wrong.        Most people will not be able to analyze why they are failing with them but that same person might very well be able to wrap their head around a different style of hunting dog.    Probably  best to let they people who successfully  run such dogs in question, answere the question.

[liefalwepon]

Probably best that you guys stay away from them.    If you don't understand them and how to use them just don't get them.       If your getting them killed, your doing something or multiple  things very wrong.        Most people will not be able to analyze why they are failing with them but that same person might very well be able to wrap their head around a different style of hunting dog.    Probably  best to let they people who successfully  run such dogs in question, answere the question.

He said RCD not finder holder, there's more than one kind of rcd and more than one way to use them


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[dallas22]

What do yall think about running 2 jagds, rcd and using a catchdog

[liefalwepon]

I don't know much about jagds, but my buddy runs two rat terriers and one or two CDs and does very well, the rats are about 35lbs so bigger and faster than jagds and are mostly bay, not as suicidal and short range


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[TheRednose]

What do yall think about running 2 jagds, rcd and using a catchdog

Seen a guy out here that mainly runs a couple of Patterdales and a couple of Dogos together and does well.

[dallas22]

What do yall think about running 2 jagds, rcd and using a catchdog

Seen a guy out here that mainly runs a couple of Patterdales and a couple of Dogos together and does well.

thats pretty much the same concept in going for

[Black Streak]

Probably best that you guys stay away from them.    If you don't understand them and how to use them just don't get them.       If your getting them killed, your doing something or multiple  things very wrong.        Most people will not be able to analyze why they are failing with them but that same person might very well be able to wrap their head around a different style of hunting dog.    Probably  best to let they people who successfully  run such dogs in question, answere the question.

He said RCD not finder holder, there's more than one kind of rcd and more than one way to use them


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Glad at least YOU realize.    Might try telling that to your buddy Ruben since he is  the one trying to answere the man's question by using them.  He clearly knows jack about them but is all to happy to talk about them as if he does.        Even if he did once own some kinda lurcher, that don't give you the right to compare junk in one breed or type to the better of another.          Another thing while I'm at it, if you are one of the ones that fail at doing something when others do it extremely  successfully, do you really think that person should be so eager to drag such into the discussion as if they are experts on them.   Especially  since you yourself just said  it isn't the same thing?         I wasn't the one that brought them to try to answere the man's question.     Matter of fact I didn't answere the question question because you are right,  Finder holders and RCDs  are not the same thing.  Did this deliberately because I don't have RCDs  and never have.   

   However Leif,  since the man asked about RCDs  finding their own pigs and since you are so quick to tell me This ain't the same as a finder holder,    how about telling me the difference between an RCD  that finds its own pigs and a Finder Holder since your trying to educate  me on it!

[Slim9797]

The RCD I have will sure enough find his own. Hell he hunts deeper than my main strike dog too. Actually he's the deepest hunting dog out of mine and all my buddies dogs we hunt together. I don't mind him hunting for himself until I lose gps signal on him or something. Then it gets sketchy. You really have to know the dog and what to look for in the Garmin of you run a RCD that will strike. If you don't know the dog or aren't paying attention you'll get him killed

[dodo1987]

What would that look like on a Garmin would it just show it treed or really tight circles

[liefalwepon]

Probably best that you guys stay away from them.    If you don't understand them and how to use them just don't get them.       If your getting them killed, your doing something or multiple  things very wrong.        Most people will not be able to analyze why they are failing with them but that same person might very well be able to wrap their head around a different style of hunting dog.    Probably  best to let they people who successfully  run such dogs in question, answere the question.

He said RCD not finder holder, there's more than one kind of rcd and more than one way to use them


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Glad at least YOU realize.    Might try telling that to your buddy Ruben since he is  the one trying to answere the man's question by using them.  He clearly knows jack about them but is all to happy to talk about them as if he does.        Even if he did once own some kinda lurcher, that don't give you the right to compare junk in one breed or type to the better of another.          Another thing while I'm at it, if you are one of the ones that fail at doing something when others do it extremely  successfully, do you really think that person should be so eager to drag such into the discussion as if they are experts on them.   Especially  since you yourself just said  it isn't the same thing?         I wasn't the one that brought them to try to answere the man's question.     Matter of fact I didn't answere the question question because you are right,  Finder holders and RCDs  are not the same thing.  Did this deliberately because I don't have RCDs  and never have.  

   However Leif,  since the man asked about RCDs  finding their own pigs and since you are so quick to tell me This ain't the same as a finder holder,    how about telling me the difference between an RCD  that finds its own pigs and a Finder Holder since your trying to educate  me on it!

I'm not trying to educate you on anything, but the guy asking the question should know there are options, not everyone has access to the genetics you promote nor do most realize they even want them because they aren't aware of the advantages. Black streak I believe your style of RCD to be superior to many other forms, if they perform as you say and I have no reason to doubt your word, I would love to have a 90 lb long legged medium range, rcd with a good nose a long neck and a clean holding style and the stamina to hold a large boar by itself for over an hour, but I don't, I have some smaller dogs that catch on sight that are short range and don't take a track well and one RCD that has a good nose but weighs about 70 lbs that's medium range that has been getting my curs cut up. I have a friend that hunts one cat and 4 or 5 airedale crosses that are catch on site dogs but don't have good noses, very short range dogs, he's caught thousands of hogs with his dogs and doesn't lose one very often, you might be able to accomplish the same thing with one or two finder holders, does that make my friends way of hunting his dogs wrong? No it doesn't. You know as well as I do there are many successful ways to catch hogs with dogs, not all RCDs are created equal, and very few people have access to the genetics you prefer.


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[Reuben]

Probably best that you guys stay away from them.    If you don't understand them and how to use them just don't get them.       If your getting them killed, your doing something or multiple  things very wrong.        Most people will not be able to analyze why they are failing with them but that same person might very well be able to wrap their head around a different style of hunting dog.    Probably  best to let they people who successfully  run such dogs in question, answere the question.

He said RCD not finder holder, there's more than one kind of rcd and more than one way to use them


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Glad at least YOU realize.    Might try telling that to your buddy Ruben since he is  the one trying to answere the man's question by using them.  He clearly knows jack about them but is all to happy to talk about them as if he does.        Even if he did once own some kinda lurcher, that don't give you the right to compare junk in one breed or type to the better of another.          Another thing while I'm at it, if you are one of the ones that fail at doing something when others do it extremely  successfully, do you really think that person should be so eager to drag such into the discussion as if they are experts on them.   Especially  since you yourself just said  it isn't the same thing?         I wasn't the one that brought them to try to answere the man's question.     Matter of fact I didn't answere the question question because you are right,  Finder holders and RCDs  are not the same thing.  Did this deliberately because I don't have RCDs  and never have.  

   However Leif,  since the man asked about RCDs  finding their own pigs and since you are so quick to tell me This ain't the same as a finder holder,    how about telling me the difference between an RCD  that finds its own pigs and a Finder Holder since your trying to educate  me on it!

I have seen some that were excellent hunters with a ton of grit...enough that I knew I didn't want any of that type...they were mt cur crossed with pit bull...every now and then you would get one that was about the right balance of traits from each parent...but most didn't live very long...the mt curs were from my line I used to keep...

I don't want a RCD or Lurcher type but I do want a great hunting dog with just enough sense to not be suicidal...catch enough to stop one and back off if the hog will keep still and when I get there I can call the dog to back away or I can give the command to catch it again...that is the goal...the average sight hound probably won't have the nose or the ability to find and stick with a bad runner in the thick thick briar patches and thick cutovers...

black streak...now I know the meaning behind the handle. there seems to be a dark side about you...you write like you are the total expert on the subject. Like liefalwepon said...there are many styles of running catch dogs and I was speaking of one type and that type I do not recommend...these are the hard hunting type that will get deep and not come back because they have one thing in mind and that is to catch a hog...these dogs can have a short life span due to over heating, drowning or by a big bad boar...these dogs hunting drive is about the same as a good hunting dog such as a good hound or mt cur...they will go deep, get deep under a briar patch where someone can not go in easily and scenarios of these types can get a dog in trouble...must I go into more detail so you can understand what I am talking about...true I do not know much about your style of dog but if I were into them I would strive to have the best and breed in that direction...

How many generations of tight bred dogs of this type have you bred and do they breed true? it is highly unlikely that you get a high percentage of great dogs unless you lucked into someone else's hard work and now you are the know it all expert on how every pup will turn out and I suppose you have grasped it well and have wrapped your head around it...because I reckon all your pups have it in their DNA to automatically know to stay clear of the cutters...what about getting in the thick brush such as blackberry patch 5 acres around after a hog, and can not maneuver in it...well your dogs won't get cut in that situation probably because you don't have a dog with that type of determination to get deep in the briar patch to locate and catch that hog...how about when the hog makes it into a deep dry creek with steep banks and the dog gets pinned between the hog and the bank or between another dog and bank? maybe you have never had your dogs in that situation...a dog can get caught up in that scenario but I reckon your dogs are magical according to your expert opinion...

when you say what you say about your dogs makes me think you have been lucky or are in denial.

What you need to do is understand the question before you speak so you won't have to sound so arrogant... or maybe I just need to give more detail so you can understand what I am talking about due to your lack of experience...    

a few weeks ago you made a comment about me not getting to the point and I thought to myself...look who is calling the kettle black...  

[Black Streak]

Probably best that you guys stay away from them.    If you don't understand them and how to use them just don't get them.       If your getting them killed, your doing something or multiple  things very wrong.        Most people will not be able to analyze why they are failing with them but that same person might very well be able to wrap their head around a different style of hunting dog.    Probably  best to let they people who successfully  run such dogs in question, answere the question.

He said RCD not finder holder, there's more than one kind of rcd and more than one way to use them


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Glad at least YOU realize.    Might try telling that to your buddy Ruben since he is  the one trying to answere the man's question by using them.  He clearly knows jack about them but is all to happy to talk about them as if he does.        Even if he did once own some kinda lurcher, that don't give you the right to compare junk in one breed or type to the better of another.          Another thing while I'm at it, if you are one of the ones that fail at doing something when others do it extremely  successfully, do you really think that person should be so eager to drag such into the discussion as if they are experts on them.   Especially  since you yourself just said  it isn't the same thing?         I wasn't the one that brought them to try to answere the man's question.     Matter of fact I didn't answere the question question because you are right,  Finder holders and RCDs  are not the same thing.  Did this deliberately because I don't have RCDs  and never have.  

   However Leif,  since the man asked about RCDs  finding their own pigs and since you are so quick to tell me This ain't the same as a finder holder,    how about telling me the difference between an RCD  that finds its own pigs and a Finder Holder since your trying to educate  me on it!

I have seen some that were excellent hunters with a ton of grit...enough that I knew I didn't want any of that type...they were mt cur crossed with pit bull...every now and then you would get one that was about the right balance of traits from each parent...but most didn't live very long...the mt curs were from my line I used to keep...

I don't want a RCD or Lurcher type but I do want a great hunting dog with just enough sense to not be suicidal...catch enough to stop one and back off if the hog will keep still and when I get there I can call the dog to back away or I can give the command to catch it again...that is the goal...the average sight hound probably won't have the nose or the ability to find and stick with a bad runner in the thick thick briar patches and thick cutovers...

black streak...now I know the meaning behind the handle. there seems to be a dark side about you...you write like you are the total expert on the subject. Like liefalwepon said...there are many styles of running catch dogs and I was speaking of one type and that type I do not recommend...these are the hard hunting type that will get deep and not come back because they have one thing in mind and that is to catch a hog...these dogs can have a short life span due to over heating, drowning or by a big bad boar...these dogs hunting drive is about the same as a good hunting dog such as a good hound or mt cur...they will go deep, get deep under a briar patch where someone can not go in easily and scenarios of these types can get a dog in trouble...must I go into more detail so you can understand what I am talking about...true I do not know much about your style of dog but if I were into them I would strive to have the best and breed in that direction...

How many generations of tight bred dogs of this type have you bred and do they breed true? it is highly unlikely that you get a high percentage of great dogs unless you lucked into someone else's hard work and now you are the know it all expert on how every pup will turn out and I suppose you have grasped it well and have wrapped your head around it...because I reckon all your pups have it in their DNA to automatically know to stay clear of the cutters...what about getting in the thick brush such as blackberry patch 5 acres around after a hog, and can not maneuver in it...well your dogs won't get cut in that situation probably because you don't have a dog with that type of determination to get deep in the briar patch to locate and catch that hog...how about when the hog makes it into a deep dry creek with steep banks and the dog gets pinned between the hog and the bank or between another dog and bank? maybe you have never had your dogs in that situation...a dog can get caught up in that scenario but I reckon your dogs are magical according to your expert opinion...

when you say what you say about your dogs makes me think you have been lucky or are in denial.

What you need to do is understand the question before you speak so you won't have to sound so arrogant... or maybe I just need to give more detail so you can understand what I am talking about due to your lack of experience...    

a few weeks ago you made a comment about me not getting to the point and I thought to myself...look who is calling the kettle black...  

Your the one that answered the rcd question the guy  asked and used sight  hounds and lurcher in your answere which you have no experience  with, only your perception.    Your the one who comments on everything under the sun as if your the forum expert on ever topic brought up.  Now your a self appointed expert on the dogs I run.  Your arogance  has no bounds!  I comment on things i know, not what i speculate to be true.  Been lots of interest in dogs such as mine lately on this forum and a lot of compare and contrast descussions about such dogs as mine or ones that hunt similar in style so yeah I've had lots of opportunities speak but you don't find me talking on topics  that are out of my relm of good solid knowledge like you are doing. Heck you didn't even  answere the guys question.  You just felt compelled to give a negative  opinion on the guys question and  told him how you do things.  He didn't ask how you did it since you don't run rcd's now did he.    You don't know squat about sight hounds and lurcher but you in your ramblings that never answered the  mans question,  sure managed to make sure and put your negative spin on them too.   You share some decent info on certain things now and then but you ain't  know where near the genius  you make yourself out to be on everything you think you are.    You know more than I, on certain things but not all things.  My dogs is one area you have way over reached.         You haven't a clue as to how good pig sight hounds and lurches hold.   You think they are just a fast bulldog lol.       BS like this and your lack of knowledge about such dogs is very apparent to me when you try to talk about them.  Made very much apparent by comments such as, that they don't do good when chasing pigs in thick thick brush.  You don't understand how such dogs operate.  What the heck about such dogs leads you to believe  they will be needing to chase pigs in thick brush.    Your dogs might chase them in brush but dogs such as mine will have them caught before the chase is initiated.  There are exceptions but no worries, this is where everything about the dogs come together in keeping it safe.     If you don't understand this, I rest my case about you not knowing these such dogs.
     You have made claims that you think the rough dogs and dogs like mine will probably  be the future.  I told you no they would not be.  Why do I not think they will be?   It's because  of self appointed experts like you who don't understand such dogs insist on trying to educate people about them.     Because people look up to you do to your knowledge in other areas, doesn't mean it carries over  to everything, yet when people like you comment on things like this, others take it as factual.  Thus this type of dog will not be understood by most thanks in large part to people like you.
     It's more than just the breed of dog but a lot of traits in certain breeds  help to bring about the entire package in such dogs both mental and physical  characteristics.       When I get to the catch I don't just  go in and stab or tie.  I watch and I video and I watch video.  I spend lots of time looking at what the dogs are doing, their different  styles of holding, the effectiveness of the different styles, what vest suits the individuals style of holding and also which breeds predominantly  hold in which style.  I've done this even before I had the dogs I do now.   I'm not just talking about things I imagine are taking place or that I just speculate  on.   I'm  purposely  setting back and watching and videoing for my own personal  knowledge about my dogs which also allows me to properly educate  others that are curious  about my dogs rather than regurgitating 2nd info or just stuff I've read in a book.  Can you say you have done as I do with dogs such as mine or dogs that hunt in a similar  fashion, no you can not!   Yet by listening to you, you would certainly think so.
    Sir, you want to call it luck that I lucked into such dogs or you want to know if I tight line bred them and have a long history  with these auch dogs.    It didn't take me years upon years to get where I am and the knowledge that I have about dogs.  It's easy for me.    Not my fault it to you so long.  Guess  we would just call you slow and steady.     As in dogs, some progress faster than  others.  Some people take to certain things like a duck to water while others struggle to make sense of it.      We don't all learn at the same rate and some take things a lot farther than others can fathem, that's just the nature of things.  We do not all accell at the same rate.   I realize the tendency  to want to undermine a person for their knowledge because you have so much more  time invested.   The short time it took me to get where I'm at you can look at in two ways but it changes nothing on my end.
     How does  me knowing how to line breed these dogs play into me being able to have such dogs or pertain to my knowledge about them.  You trying to draw me into a tight line breeding discussion is just your way of trying to make up for your incompetency about dogs such as mine.  Same goes for your comment about my handle on here.  You veering off to such childishness is very telling about your ignorance to such dogs and you are scratching  trying to do your best to make me look bad while trying to save face on this topic.
      I'll bite though as I'm  not the front you just took me for.   Tell me what characteristics and gualities you would choose to get dogs that are sight  hound based that hunt and catch their own pigs and do so while staying so injury free.  And to make things interesting since your such a dog breeding no it all and sight hound and lurcher expert, our dog will where nothing but a cut collar it's entire life.    Please tell me with all your infenint  knowledge about dogs such as these, what you would breed to get this  dog that hunts and catches and lives  a long life in nothing but a cut collar.       
    I promise I can answere my own question because of my knowledge about such dogs but you self appointed expert, here is your chance to prove to me and everyone one else you know as much about these kinda dogs as I do!   Good luck!

[liefalwepon]

I guess that falls under the heated debate category

[Slim9797]

It's the lack of movement that the Garmin is gonna show. When he's sitting at 473 yards pegged for 5 minutes giving and gaining a few yards. 9 times out of 10 he's caught.

[Reuben]

black streak...I do not know all that you know about sight hounds...and because my yard isn't large enough I wouldn't keep any...I have been into the dogs for many years and do not have much experience in many breeds but I do know a little about most...now if I lived in open country where I could ride around with my dogs I would keep a few of those sight hounds so I could turn them out on coyote and hog or whatever I wanted  caught...

Yes I do speak my mind in most subjects as I please to do so and I am very opinionated...and in reality this is the first time I have openly retaliated to someone who does not mind being disrespectful...yes I did get out of line somewhat with JP a while back and I should not have said what I said and I did apologize to him and I was very sincere about it...but day in and day out I just keep on trucking and don't pay much attention to the smart remarks...

there are many thing out there that one does not have to experience many times to form an opinion...

and I do agree with something you said...some folks don't have to be in it very long to be long in experience...I totally agree with that...and of those types they only get better with age...

one day I will post a story I have saved since 1981 about a 19 year old guide...really I want others to enjoy it as I have...the second reason is because of the fact that young guys can be wiser beyond their years not to mention it is a dog hunting story...

[Black Streak]

Ruben i dont mean you any more disrespect than I've already shown you.  I felt like given the circumstances I said nothing inappropriate,  if I over reached in some way then I apologize  to you sir.       
     Reason I even commented initially  yesterday was because I found you disrespectful not only to the man asking the question, as you never answered his question via the two choices  that he give,   but you took time out as well to disrespect me also at the same time.  Who else on this forum do you know that uses sight hounds and lurchers thats active on here.  I took your comments about them as a direct insult and lack of knowledge about my dogs.  Again, you didn't even attempt to answere his question, just used his question to smear rcd's and my dogs.    I wish you would have been more humble and had let someone that successfully  runs rcd dogs answere the man's question.    I stayed humble in that regard and did not reply to the question for the exact reason Leif tried to bring to my attention later afterwards as i realize that my dogs fall under a little different  classification given the general opinion of everyone's  definition  of an rcd on this forum.   I felt like I had the right to come to the defence of my dogs and point out they are way more  than you just made them out to be.   
         This is my explanation  to you Mr. Ruben as to why I said what I did and the following  reply was just in response to your other reply.      If you see me as arrogant  jerk for standing up for my dogs and and dispelling the myths about the good ones that take  to hunting and catching pigs, then so be it.  I'll  proudly correct the falsehoods that get spread about such dogs in my remaining time on this forum.    I wish you the best of luck Mr. Ruben and I hate that things took  the turn they did again  as soon as the question about rcd's was asked.       
   
     Just a side note of my observation  on this forum.    I don't really  see any bigger push  now for rough dogs and rcd's and sight hounds and lurchers and finder holder types than any other time since this forum first originated.   There has normally been someone with such dogs active on this  forum throughout its history.    They don't stay to terribly long on here either.  Not because they have quit hunting, but because of the general misunderstanding of their style of hunting and their dogs.  Another observation that I've seen is that these people normal have shared some of the most insightful and informitive knowledge in many areas and not just about their dogs.  Before I leave this forum, I wish to add to and leave a little insightful knowledge behind in the hopes that when someone comes along with a mind to run this type of dog, they can set themselves on the right track without being derailed and undermined and have the tools necessary  to reassure themselves they are doing right  when other try to tell them bad info.   Listening to speculation on here and bad advice given is a set back at best.  Probably not gonna be anyone active on here that hunts primarily with long dogs and lurchers to help the next person that comes along and they will have to live in the archives too if they are to educate themselves to the point where they can start properly analyzing stuff for themselves.
        Dean