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Reuben
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« on: November 12, 2015, 09:28:15 pm » |
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For me...there are only two types of hog dogs in each category... hog dogs and culls...it doesn't matter if it is a help dog or a strike dog or a catch dog, running catch dog, lurcher type or whatever... there is no in between...either it is or it isn't...to many people sell a cull and say it is lightly started when in fact the possibility is greater that it is a cull...but these folks only want back what they paid for the dog and some actually think they are doing you a favor because they are not charging extra for wormings, vaccines and feed bill...but dogs of this type are already culls but the seller is in denial...I reckon if they are in denial they won't have to admit to themselves that they are about to screw someone out of their hard earned money...just do the right thing and place the dog in a pet home...  A me too dog...there is a place for a me too dog in a pack if you need a specialty dog...maybe you have a good strike dog that bays well but has a hard time stopping a runner...and the me too dog does not hunt alone or will not find a pig...but he will follow the strike dog to hell and back if he needs to but lets say he excels in stopping hogs...so now John Doe is catching hogs and he is happy and the seller is happy and it is a win win for those involved... but don't sell a me to dog as a help dog if all he brings to the table is some barking at a hog...if he doesn't stop a pig and all he is good at is to follow the hog dog around and his only contribution is barking at a pig then he shouldn't be put up for sell...do the right thing and place him in a pet home... please don't screw folks out of there hard earned money... If the pup is 10 months old and truly has not been given a chance say so...if you are a dog man with hunting dog experience you will already have a clue as to what the pup might be some day...so do the right thing and be honest... same as with a catch dog...either it is a catch dog or it is a cull...one or the other and no in between...if he comes in and catches solid every time he is able when the bay dogs have one bayed then he is a catch dog...but if most the time he catches solid only when the bay dogs initiate the catch then he is a cull...so do the right thing... same thing with a RCD... I don't want a RCD but I do want a very catchy strike dog that stops one and then holds one if needed and backs off and bays if the hog is sitting still...just working smart... When I am asked about someone giving away a 1 or 2 year old dog I will tell them that more than likely it is a cull...you are way better buying and older dog out of a good line and then breeding it and culling through the pups...you will be a lot happier and it will be well worth the expenditure and it is just a labor of love...or just go out and buy 2 or 3 pups and hope that one or 2 will make good to great dogs...but at least you will have the same chance as anyone else for picking a good one...but those lightly started dogs that need a few more hunts or have found there own hog 3 times in six months...you are better off staying away from those folks that are trying to screw you out of your money...and that includes those that put on their rose colored classes so they can feel better about themselves when they are taking your money while getting rid of another mouth to feed...a win win for the seller...but a screwing for the buyer... I've been wanting to say this for a looong time...just trying to look out for the newer folks... there are honest folks out their...but there are almost as many who want your money while getting rid of a dog that falls a little short on potential... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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EK kennels
Hog Dog Pup
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Posts: 11
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2015, 09:55:10 pm » |
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Well said Reuben. I got burned awhile back by a seller on here. Claimed the dog was a strike dog and turned out pure cull! There should be a section on this forum to call out bad sellers. 50% my fault for not seeing the tale tale signs rite off hand. " he needs to hunt with you more" and " maybe he needs to get used to the terrain" those remarks should of thrown up a red flag for me. Lesson learned!
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Shotgun wg
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2015, 10:54:10 pm » |
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I have never been burned buying or receiving culls. Each was what I expected or more. I will not buy a good dog or great dog.
Here's why.
A man selling a good dog or a great dog has motive to lie and talk the dog up to get more money.
A man that has a cull and calls it such wants a cull price to free. He will have far more bad to say about the dog than he does good. At that point I'm deciding how much if any I'm willing to throw out the window. When I make that decision I'm never disappointed. Surprised maybe on a good note but not disappointed. I knew going in what the probable outcome may be. I have a few culls right now that do a fine job. Those dogs only cost me time and effort with some food. Time was within expectations.
Now would anyone else here feed my dogs? Well probly not. But that's fine by me cause I feed em and am kinda partial to em.
Shotgun
Arkansas
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Shotgun
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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 01:23:37 am » |
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I completely agree Reuben have given away dogs I paid good money for and tell all faults and flaws before the good.
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Wisdom is something you get right after you need it.
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Judge peel
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 06:26:37 am » |
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I have found very few people sale good dogs unless you know them and pester them lol. Any dog can be good or bad or fit you worse or better than the other fella. Lot of times I have seen this a guy gets a decent dog say 400 bucks and can find a pig if there around then he catches a few builds up a reputation on a few hunts and talks the dog up. Then sales to his buddy or unknown fella for 700. Then buys a better dog and repeats the cycle until he gets a good dog for a low investment this is the dog hustle. Hey I got a good dog for for sale he is this he is that I am asking 1250 but I will take 1000 today lol used car tactic lol or I don't care if I sale it then why are you advertising lol. If a fella always has dogs for sale he might be legit but more than likely he ain't. Jmo
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RyanTBH
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 06:47:42 am » |
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Good post here Ruben! Lots of truth to be said here... To add, what some sell not as a cull may be a cull in someone else's eyes. I always try to keep that in mind whenever I home a dog. Not everyone is going to like what you like, so some of the dogs good traits that you think are selling points may not just be that.
EK, I will push back a little bit here on your statement, and it's JMO... But if you take any dog from anyone from anywhere else other than your back yard the dog is going to have an obvious adjustment period 9 times out of 10. Now I'm not saying that gives excuse to the dog in question not doing what the seller said at all, but I would most certainly expect any dog from anywhere other than where you're currently hunting to have to adjust to different pack, different terrain, different handler, ect... That's just part of the game.
I had a gyp that was pretty well bred, had a lot of time in her, she'd found hogs and was a decent dog. She just didn't fit in with our pack and our plan anymore... So I asked around and found a kid that was interested in her... 150 bucks. Fair price IMO. Anyways, I asked the kid to keep in touch... I always like to keep in touch with where any dogs off my yard go. So I told the kid, she's pretty timid, so get her used to you before you just grow her in the woods... Idk if he did or not, but two weeks later he calls me and says she won't hunt. I laughed and said yeah, I knew you'd be calling. I told you she was timid bud... Just be patient and spend some time with her. I never heard from him so I called him back about a month later and asked how the dog was doing. He said "man, I love that bitch. She's hunting good now and even found me a hog the other day. I appreciate it man... " I said good I'm glad that u like her now... She'll get better too just be patient. So, there are some circumstances of adjustment for most dogs that go to completely different homes/areas. Called him about a year later and he said the bitch died from something weird, and walked out to her dead on her chain. Sucks... But nonetheless a story that I think makes my point. RIP Bit.
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Do work, make chit happen, and never stop moving forward.
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EK kennels
Hog Dog Pup
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Posts: 11
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 07:21:19 am » |
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That dog I got burned on has been with me for 4-5 months now. I put him in a pack that I threw together buying from sellers on this site. Every dog I bought except that one needed no adjustment time. Day one all dogs except that one hunted exactly the way their previous owners claimed. Now I am with you that some dogs need adjustment time etc. and it's my fault for buying him and keeping him. The dog was falsely represented and I over paid for sure. He hasn't changed at all.
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RyanTBH
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2015, 07:23:33 am » |
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Then yeah, you may have gotten burned. May I ask how much you paid for said dog?
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Do work, make chit happen, and never stop moving forward.
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EK kennels
Hog Dog Pup
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Posts: 11
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2015, 07:25:41 am » |
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I take that back... One dog was from Louisiana another from Fredricksburg and another from Around Dekalb Tx. The only adjustment those 3 needed was for their pads to get used to the sandy ground down here in STexas.
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EK kennels
Hog Dog Pup
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Posts: 11
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 07:30:46 am » |
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Paid 700$. He was sold as a hood dog. He's a bumper dog.. Always on the bumper. I put him on the hood and he jumped off and went to the bumper lol. He will honor a bay. He will catch only after the other dogs do. He's gunshy as can be. I keep running him though and feeding him cause I keep hoping he will turn on like the rest of the pack. Plus I lost two good dogs this month so I am in a bind for dogs.
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RyanTBH
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 07:37:06 am » |
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Dangit... Yeah, I would have to say that I would have probably wanted to see the dog hunt before I forked out 700 bucks... To me that's a lot of money, but I'm just a poor ol country boy. Lol sorry u got burned man... Hopefully lesson learned. Happy hunting.
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Do work, make chit happen, and never stop moving forward.
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oconee
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 08:07:59 am » |
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Reuben you can preach until your blue in the face but its my experience few will listen and even fewer care. The point is folks gave to have pride. Pride that they don't supply the hunting world with junk, pride that they helped the dogworld by culling something that was useless, pride that if they do sell a dog that it will make the new owner proud. Not enough "pride" in the dogworld today IMO.
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Goose87
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 10:24:03 am » |
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Reuben you can preach until your blue in the face but its my experience few will listen and even fewer care. The point is folks gave to have pride. Pride that they don't supply the hunting world with junk, pride that they helped the dogworld by culling something that was useless, pride that if they do sell a dog that it will make the new owner proud. Not enough "pride" in the dogworld today IMO.
oconee you hit the nail on the head brother, I once had a guy working for me that said , man goose I ain't ever seen anybody that can just shoot a dog you raised from a pup or cut a calf that looks good, he thought I was sick in the head when I told him I actually get a since of pride in doing so, his response was you sick daddy didn't marry mommy, I said no it's my job to continue improving and doing my part to the dog world and the Beefmaster breed to only keep the best and cull the rest, I feel like it's my responsibility to do so, there are SO MANY culls out there that are being peddled just as Ruben described it's my job to make sure that I'm not contributing to any of those slick deals. I certainly don't have the best but I can pride myself knowing that what I got is the result of culling, culling, culling, keeping, culling and culling some more. To many people want to try to break even on a 200$ dog they bought and it just causes more 200$ culls being thrown around the sport, not saying all cheap dogs are culls because of the ones I've bought over the years I've never given over 500 a round for one, not saying I won't but I haven't had to. |
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Bo Pugh
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 10:33:10 am » |
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a great dog wont ever be advertised for sale, it will be sold in a matter of no time from what i have seen. and another thing i have seen is the seller really does think he has a hog dog for sale and the buyer thinks its junk just two different opinions on hog dogs, alot of overnight hog hunters go out and buy junk dogs for a low price get lucky and catch one or two hogs and then decide to quit but since they think them dogs caught a few sick cripple hogs their worth a pile of money now. but its not their fault they never got to see a good dog work and help them realize what their feeing before they decided to high price them and sell out. and people get attached to their dogs quick and that dont help any in the dog hunting world either
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Judge peel
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 10:48:10 am » |
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The main problem is these guys coming in to the sport with a pocket full of money and want to be the man right off no matter what you say or do this is going to keep going the way it is going. And on the point of culling to me culling and killing are the same thing if you are culling a lot then your probly breeding way to to much and to fast. If you have a litter of ten and cull 9 out of the ten guess what his DNA is the same as the others whether or not that the dog can or can't be a good dog or the best out there but he can reproduce what was culled.
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Slim9797
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2015, 01:35:57 pm » |
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Between me and my buddies, we have 4 dogs that total cost comes out to $1,000 the rest of the dogs were given to us. 1 we paid for was our bulldog, he's good for us I'm happy with him. $300 of that my buddy shelled out for a jagd that I absolutely hate and is not what the guy said it was. $400 was shelled out by my buddy for a good gyp from an old friend of mine and we like her. And $150 for a pit pup from the same guy and she's still young. We've spent even more money on dogs that didn't make the cut for us. We had 4 dogs we culled, not sold, culled. We have sold 2 dogs, 1 was a big blue pit that caught good but fought with our other catch dog. And the other was the first dog I ever got and I sold her cheap because she's seen hogs, will bay hogs in woods. But is still too puppy and doesn't get out and hunt. I'm not gonna sell someone something I'm nt comfortable with my name being attached to, I have to much pride in my name
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We run dillo dogs that trash on hogs
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Reuben
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2015, 08:36:12 pm » |
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If you have a litter of ten and cull 9 out of the ten guess what his DNA is the same as the others whether or not that the dog can or can't be a good dog or the best out there but he can reproduce what was culled.
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I agree...if culling 9 pups out of ten from a litter...then more than likely it is in the DNA...someone who wants to breed better dogs with a higher percentage of pups making the cut...then that person needs to look for well bred dogs to start out with... I would rather breed to a cull that comes from a long line of great hunting dogs than to one great dog out f a long line of culls... more than likely the cull from a long line of great hunting dogs will produce a good percentage of good pups...I wouldn't breed to that cull a second time but I would focus more on his offspring... on the other hand that one great dog from a long line of culls will throw a high percentage of culls...it would take years to clean up that gene pool...so why not start with a good line of dogs... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Black Streak
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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2015, 01:00:04 am » |
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If you have a litter of ten and cull 9 out of the ten guess what his DNA is the same as the others whether or not that the dog can or can't be a good dog or the best out there but he can reproduce what was culled.
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I agree...if culling 9 pups out of ten from a litter...then more than likely it is in the DNA...someone who wants to breed better dogs with a higher percentage of pups making the cut...then that person needs to look for well bred dogs to start out with... I would rather breed to a cull that comes from a long line of great hunting dogs than to one great dog out f a long line of culls... more than likely the cull from a long line of great hunting dogs will produce a good percentage of good pups...I wouldn't breed to that cull a second time but I would focus more on his offspring... on the other hand that one great dog from a long line of culls will throw a high percentage of culls...it would take years to clean up that gene pool...so why not start with a good line of dogs... Very well said and I very much agree!!! |
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Judge peel
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« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2015, 12:20:50 pm » |
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There are some really good dogs out there that where culls at one point for some one with a set goal but made outstanding for some one else with other thoughts
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oconee
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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2015, 11:55:22 pm » |
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Its attitudes and beliefs like that Judge that have folks feeding junk with the hopes it will turn around. I had a very well respected houndman tell me that once you deem one a cull and end his existence it will never prove you wrong. The point is, sone rare specimens do come around but the percentage is so low that you'll ALWAYS be money and time ahead to cull and move on. Now if a guy refuses to cull and trades the dog around or gives it away then it just might make someone a barnburner and you'll second guess yourself next time and feed a junker until its 3 yrs old. I have given several dogs away that were too good to cull and just didn't quite suit my style but you can bet your butt none of my culls will ever resurface to make my decision look wrong.
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