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Judge peel
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« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2015, 10:39:21 am » |
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I ain't mad at ya it's just people talk a lot on this site then make bold statements about people they don't know it's all fairy tail land any way. I have a very high % of hogs caught that I strike whether it's a caught on sight or a 5 hr run so I think I breed ok. You or any one else is entitled to think what you may. But it won't change what I do becuz frankly what I do works very well. And I still hold to culling is killing and I truly think some guys breed to kill to satisfying some sick demons in side themself. I can't think of any other logical reason a guy would breed five litters a yr to keep 2 dogs this is ludicrous behavior.
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TheRednose
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« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2015, 12:40:10 pm » |
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I don't breed hog dogs and don't claim too and please keep in mind this is no more than an opinion. But I have had bulldogs for a long time and have been around and learned from a few good bulldog men. Culling is necessary because as Oconee said it is absolutely vital to a breeding program to be honest and then do what needs to be done. Especially for long term success this is true.
But I remember I also had one of these dog men tell me while he was laughing after I had read an article to him about a guy saying how much and how hard he culls. He said if you are always culling, culling, culling, then just stop breeding please! Cause whatever you are doing is obviously not working lololol Cause if you cannot produce good percentages in your litters after a couple of generations or so then the same way you are honest with your dogs you should be honest with yourself. Just my two cents.
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Reuben
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« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2015, 01:04:19 pm » |
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I don't breed hog dogs and don't claim too and please keep in mind this is no more than an opinion. But I have had bulldogs for a long time and have been around and learned from a few good bulldog men. Culling is necessary because as Oconee said it is absolutely vital to a breeding program to be honest and then do what needs to be done. Especially for long term success this is true.
But I remember I also had one of these dog men tell me while he was laughing after I had read an article to him about a guy saying how much and how hard he culls. He said if you are always culling, culling, culling, then just stop breeding please! Cause whatever you are doing is obviously not working lololol Cause if you cannot produce good percentages in your litters after a couple of generations or so then the same way you are honest with your dogs you should be honest with yourself. Just my two cents.
amen to that... the cream rises to the top...knowing what to breed is 1/2...the other half is retaining the best pups for breeding...really there is more to it than that but that is the core... one should never take lightly what and when to breed...its not about producing many and selecting a few... purify the line...that will give you the high percentages of good to great dogs of the type of hunting dog we envision in our minds eye... when we reach a certain point in breeding dogs...lets say 8 pups in a litter...3 can be of the quality a good breeder is trying to produce...and the other 5 are still good dogs in any pack...with someone who appreciates that same type of hunting dog...because as we all know some cull because the dog trail barks while others like trail barkers etc...etc... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2015, 01:43:57 pm » |
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Rednose the last part of your statement is what I go by out of my dogs I have bred one time in the last five yrs the other was a accident breeding and gave me one pup. She is exactly what I thought those to dogs would be. The previous litter produce some really nice dogs to me maybe not to others but any way all are in working home and doing good one is a house dog. Those pups where baying at 8 weeks old hunting hard at 8 months. Bay very tight will take a track as long as it ain't to cold range good to my standard will as long as needed will catch if teeth go on the hog. Now I spent hrs on hrs hunting with dogs I thought would match good to the gyp I have spent nights and dream about what they would be like. Planned the breeding for almost a yr then did it. And I got exactly what I wanted now I did not have to cull any all the dogs that left are hunting and where not culled. Doesn't mean that they would not be a cull for some one who wasn't looking for a dog that I like. But that is how I breed my dogs not mixing 10 breeds or culling 50 pups. Some people get things right faster then others. But you have to first take the plank out of your own I before you worrie bout the splinter in your brothers eye
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oconee
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« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2015, 01:51:37 pm » |
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Its nothing to do with culling, its knowing the difference between a "cull" and a decent dog. High % of litters turn out when bred tightly within a good quality family. You see the groundwork has been layed for this generation of hunters. No matter our breed of choice there is a family (strian) within that breed that will likely suit us and our needs. We just have to do our research and spend time with specimens from the familys within our breed of choice and see how they suit us. Then we can move forward with the family and expect cosistency from our crosses. The culling part is "black and white." Litters are not 100% so there is always some degree of culling required and its pretty obvious if we are honest with ourselves. This topic is about "selling dogs" and IMO 70% of the grown dogs being sold are no more than others "culls" that they aren't being honest with themselved about. Man can justify ANYTHING to himself if he wants.
Judge I'm sorry I said what I said. I was really just jacking around with you. It won't happen again.
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Fixitlouie
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« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2015, 04:38:24 pm » |
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I only sold one dog as a hog dog....and she is doing just fine.... All others I end ed up selling as pets that havea hog dog parent. .lol.
Safer to sell pets that may or may not turn on...haha
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bay, catch, barr, repeat...
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Black Streak
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« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2015, 05:03:03 pm » |
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I've seen some of yall say that when faced with a choice of either breeding to a great dog that's scatter bred or breeding to a good line bred dog that's not very good, yall had rather breed to the line bred dog that's not so good. I dont necessarily disagree with this. My question though is if you take this stance, why are you killing dogs now after having brought the line of dogs so far? Figured it would be a fairly interesting question to see yalls take on it from this angle.
I see the necessity in it with the scatter bred dog but given that I think most of you would choose the not so great but good line bred dog, why yall take a 22 to so many pups at this point with this stance on a "cull" line bred dog.
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WayOutWest
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« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2015, 05:13:46 pm » |
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Good question, I personally have found it prudent to hold back one or 2 in case something happens and that dog you been counting on can't be bred and the parents are gone or can't be bred. It's easy to get into a corner that becomes hard to get out of with linebreeding.
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Scott
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« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2015, 06:31:46 pm » |
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Culling don't make you a good breeder
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But, if your gonna breed...you should be prepared to cull. Anyone that tells me they don't produce culls, I stay away from. |
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Reuben
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« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2015, 07:43:33 pm » |
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Culling don't make you a good breeder
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But, if your gonna breed...you should be prepared to cull. Anyone that tells me they don't produce culls, I stay away from. Scott...from reading your posts in the past I believe you raise and breed bull dogs...the way I see it a bull dog catches or he don't...the difference is like the night and day...of course there are other variables that I am sure you look for... but in a hunting dog there are many shades of gray that makes a hunting dog...the worst one in a litter might be a good dog in certain packs...I am one who believes that it is very possible to have all pups turn out in a litter...I have done it more than once...but most the dogs were related and all the dogs used were good hunting dogs...there were a few that were related from one side and somewhat related from another side... if red dogs can breed true and yellow dogs breed true then if we breed for a high standard in the hunting department then why not??? IMO the difference is that we can see the red and the yellows...but the hunt we can not readily see...and that makes it easier for those that do not set their standards higher to sometimes breed that way... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Scott
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« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2015, 08:18:04 pm » |
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Reuben, I agree with your line of thinking. I know first hand the differences in breeding curs and bulldogs. IMO, the majority of the cur breeders don' t really inbreed, at best most are loosely linebred. I know there are exceptions...but, those folks are exactly that...exceptions.
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RyanTBH
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« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2015, 08:18:50 pm » |
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You have to have set standards to have a breeding program. Plain and simple. If you do not have standards then what are you breeding for? If the dog doesn't meet those set standards then by definition it is a cull.
What happens to a cull? If it can be a decent family dog or pet then by all means get the dog fixed and find it a home. If not then do what u gotta do. My 2 cents...
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Do work, make chit happen, and never stop moving forward.
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Reuben
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« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2015, 08:44:58 pm » |
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Good question, I personally have found it prudent to hold back one or 2 in case something happens and that dog you been counting on can't be bred and the parents are gone or can't be bred. It's easy to get into a corner that becomes hard to get out of with linebreeding.
I've seen some of yall say that when faced with a choice of either breeding to a great dog that's scatter bred or breeding to a good line bred dog that's not very good, yall had rather breed to the line bred dog that's not so good. I dont necessarily disagree with this. My question though is if you take this stance, why are you killing dogs now after having brought the line of dogs so far? Figured it would be a fairly interesting question to see yalls take on it from this angle.
I see the necessity in it with the scatter bred dog but given that I think most of you would choose the not so great but good line bred dog, why yall take a 22 to so many pups at this point with this stance on a "cull" line bred dog.
Joel...I have run into that same problem before as well in the past...I was already about 5 and 6 generation into my line of dogs and I was there without a female to breed...Luckily I had given a female pup away to a friend that she was awesome but a little on the small side and her color was not what I liked...so no harm I could have here replaced in a year so I thought...long story short I got her back and she produced some outstanding dogs and the female I kept out of her was the smallest in the litter but an excellent specimen in hunt size and conformation... Black streak...I use the word cull quite a bit but cull to me is taking the pup or dog out of the breeding program or hunting program...there are other ways to cull besides putting a bullet in a dog... I know that choosing wisely and testing pups will increase your chances of producing better dogs...shopping around for a good dog that is unrelated can lower your chances of producing a higher percentage of good dogs...you insinuate a high cull rate...if not done wisely we will wind up with a high percentage of culls...culls meaning they shouldn't be allowed to reproduce... the first time I decided to breed a line of hunting dogs I spent a lot of time and money...I turned the females over very quickly to purify the bloodline...the males I held back more for hunting...females were proven to be of the right quality and set back for one breeding and then selected from those females pups...after a few generations I slowed the process down because I felt I had the dogs where I wanted and I had the bloodline fixed to what I wanted...so to continue breeding forward I was going to back myself into a corner where I would need outside blood...and that would produce a percentage of culls...so I wanted to stay away from that... I gave up these dogs because I was getting out forever...  and 2 years later I realized my mistake...and getting back I have culled quite a bit of dogs...a total of 7 or 8 dogs in about 6 years...I now have 3 dogs I like and four 6.5 month old pups I have a good feeling about that I raised in my own back yard and six of the seven were bred and selected from my own back yard...the fifth pup I gave to a friend...the pup was super nice as well but his leg was slightly shorter than what I liked...does that make him a cull? no it doesn't...it just means he does not meet my standards...will the 7 dogs in my back yard make outstanding reproducers??? no because they are scatter bred...I call it like I see it when it comes to my dogs...no rose colored glasses here...do I like my dogs??? yes quite a bit... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Bo Pugh
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« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2015, 09:26:08 pm » |
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You have to have set standards to have a breeding program. Plain and simple. If you do not have standards then what are you breeding for? If the dog doesn't meet those set standards then by definition it is a cull.
What happens to a cull? If it can be a decent family dog or pet then by all means get the dog fixed and find it a home. If not then do what u gotta do. My 2 cents...
That's what I think too. When you decide you want to add some more dogs in your pack and raise your own you need to know exactly what you want and what you want them to be doing by what age and not make excuses if their not making the cut. And keeping every pup and culling as needed usually works out good. |
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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2015, 07:05:11 am » |
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Setting standards is imo necessary from the start first in deciding what type of dog you want to hunt behind and finding a breed that suits your preference this has taken me several years. Now that I house and feed the dogs that I prefer I still only own one male who's natural ability and tight breeding makes him worthy of breeding. I have been on tireless search for a female of the same line to breed to but unfortunately so far have not found the one.I refuse to breed anything else scattered and end up having to go through another dozen to get a maybe. I have entertained the thought but haven't pulled the trigger and won't. The problem is finding two great dogs from the same line in a timely manner as the life span of a working hog dog(one that's hunted 2-3 times a week)is unknown at best.I have owned females from the same line but they weren't breeding quality in my eyes.I raised my male from a pup he's a Cambell and these are a tight breed he came from generations of best to best and strict culling from my friend his sire was eaten by a gator this year which makes it even more difficult for me to obtain the right female. I have yet to find one grown female that someone will come off of and understandably so. Raising pups has been the only option and I have yet to raise a female I thought was worthy.If I stud him out for pick I have one shot and another year gone on one pup and hoping the whole time I bring him home every hunt.I know this is has been a ramble but my point is that a breeding program is incredibly difficult to even get started and I have yet to even get to the culling process of pups bred in my yard because its proved so far impossible to get to breeding process. So how do you start?Did you breed to a cull and go against all that a strict culling process entales or did every man who breeds dogs just Somehow end up with 2 greats of the same line at the same time?
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Wisdom is something you get right after you need it.
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Reuben
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« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2015, 07:59:54 am » |
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Lh...the biggest problem I see that could happen is you losing you well bred Campbell cur...so you need to protect what you have...call Mr. Campbell and see if he has an older female he will sell you...one that already is no longer needed...or maybe he will lease one to you...750 or 1000 dollars is well worth paying to get a full litter you can pick from...keep as many as yo can and give or sell a few to friends...just make it clear that you will have several b reedings if you choose to do so...
Another choice and this I would do first...if the female is not that good but has lots of good behind her I would breed to her...
If he were mine I would breed him to a Cajun plott and then breed him back to his best daughter...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2015, 08:39:57 am » |
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I have not kept a cull and would not want to do a cross when I feel that the Cambell dogs are breed and perform exactly as I like.I wouldn't want to take Mr Cambell and my buddy who I get my dogs from years of hard work and throw it down the tubes by crossing.If I ever had the opportunity to own a Cajun plott I would show Mike the same respect.
I haven't thought of leasing a dog though and have never even heard of it until you posted about breeding to another man's dog.I believe I will try and see if anyone is interested in doing so.
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Wisdom is something you get right after you need it.
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Judge peel
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« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2015, 10:49:27 am » |
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You have to start some where dogs are like savings accounts the more you put in the more you get back. I am sure most fella can breed and make a dog it ain't that hard it's not nuclear physics
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Reuben
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« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2015, 11:25:14 am » |
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LH, I understand you what you mean...you might try contacting Campbell himself...he might have what you need...sometimes paying extra will get you way ahead of the game...having three or four young pups that will be as good as their sire would be awesome...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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doggintexas
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« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2015, 12:17:47 pm » |
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I agree with a lot of points talked about on here about breeding and culling. I was kind of like Rueben except I though good dogs were easy to get till I lost the dogs I had and had to start over and tried some different dogs and realized real quick what I had. Half of my dogs now are related and are related to what I had and im trying to tighten up the line again. I don't breed a lot like Judge said but I usually have a good idea of what im getting and its worked for the most part. We need to remember that the dogs we breed started off as scattered bred and unknown dogs at one point. The line has to start somewhere.
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