Ronda vs holm

[TazD]

Judge. I feel if Aldo comes out and uses his speed, leg kicks to close up Conners stance, and finally uses his Black Belt in BJJ he will take the fight. If he comes in lazy like he has in his last few fights he will lose! McGreagor is also a one dimensional fighter, but he is good at it, is real big for the weight class, and is tough!
Now when it comes to Luke and Chris, I will take Luke! Chris caught Silva playing around in their first fight, and of course the snapped leg ended the second fight. His fight with Belfort (off the TRT) he was getting his a $$ kicked till Belfort gave up on the ground!  His fight with Machido kind of the same thing, plus he could not keep Machido on the ground well. Luke is a better kicker, puncher, athlete, faster, and as good on the ground as Chris. Chris is on tough SOB, but his skill set is shoot in and take it to the ground thats about it. He kicks like a girl, not really good with his hands,defense against a striker is not good, and is sIow! I will go with a head kick and lights out for the slooowww Chris Weidman!! Lol...

[Judge peel]

That's the best thing bout fights who knows lol we all speculate to what we think will happen but until it is done that's all it is. But I truly think weidman is one of those guy that ain't the best he is just the right guy and he is very beatable on paper but until you do well that's what it is.  New champs coming up are always thought to be lucky or this and that I think he is underrated as a survivor not very technical tho. But rocky Marciano wasn't ether just the right guy at the right time


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[TazD]

I hear you. Also have the Dillan haw vs Cruz fight in January.  So we have some good fights for the next couple months!

[Reuben]

Well kinda what I thought would happen did but I was in shock on how impressive it was. That left hand was a trip hammer Ronda had no chance what so ever it was done after the second exchange wow still taking it in i member watching holy few yrs back thinking that she was bad chick then Ronda was the baddest well that changed. That truly shows the power of a strike to the face that has no answer


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JP...I don't do the game as well as you guys...but one thing I do know and I learned it because of a punch I took to the face as a teenager...I took up boxing lessons for about 6 months just to learn how to defend/protect myself from those devastating punches to the body and mainly to the face...from what I could see Ronda couldn't protect herself from it...and that should be an automatic response without having to think about it...

and like already mentioned...she came in looking a little pudgy and Holly...well...you could see the six packs on her...she was physically and mentally prepared...

[TheRednose]

A good striker will beat a good wrestler 9 out of 10 times.

Taz my friend and I say this respectfully as I do respect you but it is actually exactly the opposite. Common misconception outside the sport though.

The only way a good striker on average is beating a good wrestler is if that striker is a good wrestler too. Just to understand better, though its been proven many many times I will shed a little light on this not with an opinion but with actual facts.

The best fighters in the world currently listed by weight class.

Heavyweight:
Fabricio Werdum (current champ) BJJ/Grappler background
Cain Velasquez (previous champ) Wrestling Background

Light Heavyweight:
Jon Jones (Previous Champ) Wrestling background
Daniel Cormier (Current Champ) Wrestling background

Middleweight:
Chris Weidman (Current Champ) Wrestling background beat one of the greatest strikers UFC has ever seen to get belt.

Welterweight:
Robbie Lawler (Current Champ) Striker but most of his losses came to wrestlers, and he was a very good high school wrestler in Iowas as well.
Johny Hendricks (Previous Champ) Wrestling background
Georges St. Pierre (Previous Champ) Started off as mainly a striker but became a wrestler as it was far more effective and IMO became the most boring UFC Champion with his take down and lay on you game. The only people he stood up with were people who were more accomplished wrestlers that he knew he could out strike. But for a long time he had the highest percentage of successful take downs in the UFC.

LightweightL
Rafael dos Anjos (Current Champ) Wrestling/BJJ background but did not become champ until he started wrestling hard with a wrestling coache at Calvary Chapel Great guy I wrestled with him as well.

Featherweight:
Connor (Interm Champ) Striker
Jose Aldo (Current Real Champ) Striker

Bantamweight:
T.J. Dillashaw (Current Champ) Wrestling background

Flyweight:
Demetrious Johnson (Current Champ) Wrestling background

So what I am basically showing you is that wrestling is by far the most dominant style and that is why the heavy majority of champions both past and present come from wrestling backgrounds even if they only used their wrestling to strike such as Jon Jones and Chuck Lidell. Fighters like these are what people wrongly but commonly point to as strikers who beat wrestlers lol their actually wrestlers that out strike other wrestlers.

Now you definitely have to be well rounded though in todays game and just being good at only one thing will not keep you on top very long. Maybe in the future pure strikers will start to win in the UFC consistently but I highly doubt it. There will always be your exceptions like Connor, Aldo, and Anderson but on average most of your top athletes will continue to come from wrestling backgrounds and then just cross trained.

[Judge peel]

Red nose  I think that most mma fighters have wrestling back grounds cuz after college there is not much left and they in most cases have spent there life training. And I agree about there wrestling being so good that it makes them stand to strike. But I will say imo a good striker will make his opponent try take downs even if he isn't as good as the other. My brother inlaw runs bjj dojo in Monroe north Carolina 15 yr ago that was the secret potion. I went and goofed off with them bjj is a joke unless you are at a high level and truly under stand the movement. Just like they use to say karate is only good in a karate fight lol. 


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[TheRednose]

Red nose  I think that most mma fighters have wrestling back grounds cuz after college there is not much left and they in most cases have spent there life training. And I agree about there wrestling being so good that it makes them stand to strike. But I will say imo a good striker will make his opponent try take downs even if he isn't as good as the other. My brother inlaw runs bjj dojo in Monroe north Carolina 15 yr ago that was the secret potion. I went and goofed off with them bjj is a joke unless you are at a high level and truly under stand the movement. Just like they use to say karate is only good in a karate fight lol. 


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Judge they have wrestling backgrounds because they are the most effective backgrounds to have. Pro football players have not fared very well, pro boxers even worse. If there was a better background to come from you would see people coming from it. But what you see are these Managers and promoters scouting the college wrestling events because they know that is where they will get their next champ from. Well at least it will give them the best odds of that anyways.

Hey Judge I don't think I understand what you are saying could you please explain when you say "But I will say imo a good striker will make his opponent try take downs even if he isn't as good as the other.".  Do you mean a good striker will make someone try a take down even if they are not good at take downs? If so I totally agree, but we were speaking a good striker vs a good wrestler I thought?

I mainly was a striker when I was still fighting, you can't win in today's game if you cannot strike period. But I was talking with all things being equal a good wrestler will beat a good striker 9 out of 10 times. I mean even with the rules emphasis changing to standing the fighters up to make fights more exciting which greatly favors striking you still see almost all of the very best guys are still wrestlers. I don't think normal people really understand how extremely easy it is for a high level wrestler to take down some one with no wrestling. I mean it is just toooo easy I cannot even over exaggerate that. Personally I have won a few bets with some of my buds who I played football with (lineman) saying I could not take them down and that it would not work on them lolol same thing with BJJ hahaha. But anyways great discussion Judge, I hope I don't come off too rude, not my intention at all. Just it was my life for about 17 years, I was there when it all started and I am just passionate about it.

[Judge peel]

Rednose if two strikers or to wrestlers are standing and one is getting the better of the other they have to change levels to stop what the other is doing not that it's always the best choice.  When I was in the army I was pretty rowdy and got into a lot of scuffles. Seems like half the guys that came from up north where wrestlers some good some not so good lol. That was not a skill where I came from but I came to respect them for the skill. Any one that was in the service knows beer guys and egos will get you in trouble lol. But any way every wrestler has to learn to strike if he wants to win just like a striker has to learn to defend the take down. Heck the worst ufc fight will mop the floor with most of us lol.


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[TheRednose]

Judge you are definitely right, the days of being one dimensional are long gone. You definitely have to be well rounded no doubt about that and its progressing at such a fast rate now as well. They are finding new strategies that work all the time and then finding ones that trump those lol.

[TazD]

Rednose.
I still beg to differ.  Those men  Fabricio, Cain, Jon, Johny, Rafael, Jose, TJ  win more fights with their strikes then they do submissions!  Jose is a Black Belt in BJJ, and still uses his strikes to win 90 percent of his fights! It's okay to have a opinion and have a good discussion on fighting!  Now having a understanding or a background in wrestling is very important for defense against it! Besides St. Pierre, it's hard to close the gap for a wrestler against a good striker, unless they  have good hands and feet! That's why St. Pierre uses a awesome jab. I put in over  5 hrs a week working with fighters for the last 40yrs, and a lot more when I was active fighting myself. Wrestlers were always easier to dominate in a fight then someone with good foot work and hands! Especially if it was a real street fight!
Watch TJ'S last two fights!! When did he wrestle?? Aldo?? Etc....

[TheRednose]

Rednose.
I still beg to differ.  Those men  Fabricio, Cain, Jon, Johny, Rafael, Jose, TJ  win more fights with their strikes then they do submissions!  Jose is a Black Belt in BJJ, and still uses his strikes to win 90 percent of his fights! It's okay to have a opinion and have a good discussion on fighting!  Now having a understanding or a background in wrestling is very important for defense against it! Besides St. Pierre, it's hard to close the gap for a wrestler against a good striker, unless they  have good hands and feet! That's why St. Pierre uses a awesome jab. I put in over  5 hrs a week working with fighters for the last 40yrs, and a lot more when I was active fighting myself. Wrestlers were always easier to dominate in a fight then someone with good foot work and hands! Especially if it was a real street fight!
Watch TJ'S last two fights!! When did he wrestle?? Aldo?? Etc....

Not sure about any of that, and I respect your opinion Taz but the people you name are wrestlers first and foremost and yes they do win a lot of their fights with strikes but that is their decision as they control where the fight takes place, it is their wrestling that allows that. That is why wrestlers are sooooooo dominant in this sport. And its even easier in a street fight for a wrestler to dominate. I mean just look at the first 5 to 10 years or so of this sport before people were well rounded, what one style dominated? I am not saying striking is not important, it is absolutely vital but they can be strikers because their wrestling affords them that. Show me how many champs are pure strikers without a wrestling background. Their are exceptions but few and far in between, I have been in the Mecca of MMA from the start and I was boxing before I ever started wrestling and that just showed me how important it was. I won almost all of my fights by staying on my feet but it was because I was a college wrestler that allowed me to do that by not getting taken down and letting me decide where the fight was going to take place. Anyways like I said I respect your opinion Taz but I will just leave it alone now. Thank you for the discussion my friend.

[Fixitlouie]

Wrestlers in general have core strength= hard punches. Good base. MMA is ever changing.  And having a good wrasln background is a easier transion to MMA. ....HOWEVER.  IMO... a great stand up guy with good wrestling will Always beat a great wrestler with ok stand up. ....really their are too many variables to say what's better. Body type plays a role. Mental game is huge....

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[Judge peel]

The best fighters imo are all well rounded but chose one dominate skill. But most fights are won by strikes from standing or on the ground. If you put the best wrestlers against the best boxers in the ring it would be one sided each way. But wrestlers usely  can't box that's why guys that can box go on to box and wrestler mma imo. In boxing the better skilled guy almost always wins in MMA at the higher level all have a good chance to win even if they lack certain skills as we just watched lol. Fights always start standing then the one getting the worse of it goes for take downs lol


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[TazD]

Rednose. Watch TJ Dillashaws last 2 fights! You will not find a more dominate fight from someone fighting a true champion, not a Rhonda Rousey who fought girls alot smaller, weaker, and less experienced then her! She was hyped up by Dana White, and she feel for her own hype! Look what just happened to her when she met a Real fighter/striker, she got her a$$ handed to her, and all her Judo/wrestling was negated by stopping all the take downs, great foot work, heavy hands and elbows, and of course kicks!! Take away the wrestlers take down, which is not hard to do, then what did she have to fall back on, or any wrestler for that matter?? He fought a champion Renan Barao, who had 36 fights with only 3 loses, and 15 submissions! More submissions wins then most fighters have fights and made him look like amature!  He controlled the fight because Bam Bam taught him how to be a great striker, and had a excellent fight plan! That's why he left Alpha Male gym who are predominantly wrestlers and followed a striking coach. Wrestling is okay for taking someone to the ground and then controlling him, but they are not taught any finishing techniques like BJJ. Not saying you do not need to understand wrestling,  just it's not the best way to fight!
As far as a street fight or any real life combat, the last place you want to be is on the ground! Your talking from reading not experience on that one! I have been trained for over 45yrs in real combat by instructors from all branches of the military, as well as martial arts instructors, and boxing coaches from here in the US as well as other foreign countries , and the one thing they all teach is staying mobile in a street fight, knife fight, or gun battle my friend, not rolling around on the ground!
You can believe what you want, I am just telling you the facts of true combat, not WWE!! Lol...

[TheRednose]

You can believe what you want, I am just telling you the facts of true combat, not WWE!! Lol...

Taz I was trying to be respectful. Those are far from facts my friend. You watching it and giving me your opinion is not going to enlighten me to all the time I have spent fighting and training with the best in the world. I'm not going to chest thump anymore than that but please understand there is nothing you need to teach me about this sport my friend. I am sorry have to say that but after your WWE remark I could not help myself. I listed facts for you, you keep giving me your opinion. But hey everybody is entitled to one. You take care.