On Breeding Better Dogs

[Goose87]

Sanman,  that's the thing about great bred family dogs bred like you say for years and years.  When bred like that and bred true without any penmanship being done in how they are bred along the way.  Those types of family dogs presents and traits  will be felt for gens and gens.  I know of bulldogs that where born back in the 60's that where bred true to form up till this day and let me tell you there is Damn near clones being born till this day of the dogs they bred back then.  Color, build, ability and everything else they ain't lost a Damn thing!  But let me tell you along the way there where SELECTED CROSSES bred only when needed and then straight back to the family they went.  Regardless what's on paper when you get faimlys that are worth their salt for 50 years and still producing like day one and all the Vigor is still there you can bet your sweet behind they didn't just get that way from never making a cross some where along the was.....Hell even a dumb Ass Scientist genealogist will  tell us this.  Lol

Thank You for putting this the way you did, when people here the word outcross they immediately jump to the train of thought that you just watered your blood down, outcrosses are needed to maintain the longevity of the line, it can be from another tight bred family of dogs that have the same style your dogs have and your not losing nothing, if you sit in the same batch of tubwater long enough it's going to get cold, you either add more hot water or keep it cold. Not trying to sound like a smart as$ by no means, but for those of you who have never dabbled in the bulldog game have got to understand that those types of dogs have been bred for a long long time and have maintained true to form more so than just about any other type of working dog in the world, due solely to sound breeding practices, so something their doing is working, it just seems to me that some can't seem to understand a bulldog or old bulldog mans way of doing things when it comes to breeding dogs versus a man who is breeding hunting dogs.

[TexasHogDogs]

Yes,  a  great out cross is just as important to a tight family of dogs survival as it is to keep the tight family as straight as you can.  The out cross you choose if chose right will greatly improve your family of dogs in many ways and for sure it's longevity!   Once a family is bred so tight it's great gene poolcannot breathe so to speak.  They begin to smoother themselves and if you keep pouring the purity on they will soon smother to death.  A out cross is a breath of fresh air and if chose right it will bring out the greatness of you tight family genes.  Vigor!

[sanman]

Yes Mr. Jimmy, it's Larry Parker's dogs I am running. I like the way they hunt for me. To get back to the beginning of this conversation Mr. Reuben started, I believe that Mr. Larry has bred and culled correctly. I think this is what contributes to his litters being about 80% hog dogs, with some being exceptional. I got high hopes for the litter I am trying to get right now. Gonna try and keep most of them.

[Semmes]

Reuben, I googled gold nugget, mountainview, very nice lookin dog for sure...

The dogs have a really nice muscled wide stance and quite blocky front end for a cur, and the angulation in the rears are exceptional!

....tight and right looking dogs!

Did you by chance own the jack, Ty, and Bonnie dogs I can across in the pics on hogs?

[Semmes]

From what I read....and that is only worth the angle the person that wrote it was coming from, seems mountainview's registry was a soley performance based program starting with six mountain curs culled to two then with two more blood related mountain curs added a bit later?

[Semmes]

One of the ones added was gold nuggets brother. A pretty 'tight family' indeed like you said the dog you bought the gold nugget heavy pup off of that didn't look like much.

Was the pup that you said was a gold nugget clone still bred off mountainview's dogs or did it have another mountain cur kennel dog (or two) bred into it as well?

[Reuben]

Ruben are those dogs still around


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there are a few breeders that carried on with that blood...but...they are not the Gold Nugget breeder so no telling...there is a man in Louisiana that is supposed to have some good ones and he raises them to sell as well...

my two young dogs are 1/2 kemmer with mostly Gold nugget breeding in the back ground...one is sire to my 1/2 plott pups...I am pretty excited about those 4 pups...

[Reuben]

I don't know if the mountainview cur is still around...they are kemmer curs that broke away and formed a new registry and they were supposed to only breed proven dogs...the best looking dog I saw that he had pictures of was a gold nugget bred dog that he named after the Famous Kemmer cur "gold nugget". Yes semmes...I believe you are talking about the mt view dog...he was a beautiful dog...and supposed to been outstanding hunting dog and producer...

That dog I bought for 600 dollars back then...it was around 1990-91 or so...he was out of Gold Nugget JR...I bought him in Call, Texas...about 25 yards from the Louisiana line...I went to buy another pup and I just wouldn't feed one like what I saw...and all other 30 dogs he had I did not like...they all were nice looking and built right for what he liked...nothing wrong with that...he is a heck of a dog man but his likes and mine are like the night and day...I saw ole Hobo and I had to have him...He was fixing to sell him after he tuned him up...he turned that dog loose and he kicked rocks in our face on his way out...he got treed pretty quick on a squirrel but was mainly a coon dog but loved hog...he was one of the best I saw in a bay pen...I was getting ready to leave and he said he might have another I might like...I said I don't need to buy another and he said no...she is fre and a heck of a squirrel dog...I was thinking she might look like his other dogs but he said she was given to him and well bred...So we walked around there and boy was she a good looking one...she was slick coated and naturally muscled and well built...and a hunting dog...my style and not his so it was a win win for the both of us...

[Semmes]

Thanks for the info Reuben

I like hearing and reading about breeds or lines of breeds I don't have experience with.

[alphabravo]

I would like to see some of you newer folks from this website to join in and throw ideas and theories out here and get some new discussion going...

Okay Reuben, I'll speak up. I have zero(0) experience in hog hunting, but my dog does(she came to me from a hog hunting kennel). My true passion with dogs is protection training. I want a well rounded dog,but they must have a willingess to protect without being an overly aggressive POS.  My thought is about nerves and teperament. Any dog can be taught to bite(even labs LOL), but good nerves and temperament cannot be taught.  If I can expose pups to different situations, surfaces,objects, dogs and people and do it at different times of day andunder different feeding circumstances(fullbelly,empty stomach, half feeding,lite snack)

 and still have a happy, friendly dog, that is the dog I keep. I'm not really concerned with sport, but some of the excercises are useful.I keep the pups that pass those test and get serious about training for a true protection dog. Iwould like to keep ALL the dogs that pass, but my budget will not allow it. I  do my best to get those I don't keep into the hands of either working people or those I trust.
 Other than that Ilook for a good dog with a hybrid look. I've had pitbulls for the last 12 years and I don't want to be reminded of that anymore, so no straight standard dogs. JMHO.

[TheRednose]

Okay Reuben, I'll speak up. I have zero(0) experience in hog hunting, but my dog does(she came to me from a hog hunting kennel). My true passion with dogs is protection training. I want a well rounded dog,but they must have a willingess to protect without being an overly aggressive POS.  My thought is about nerves and teperament. Any dog can be taught to bite(even labs LOL), but good nerves and temperament cannot be taught.  If I can expose pups to different situations, surfaces,objects, dogs and people and do it at different times of day andunder different feeding circumstances(fullbelly,empty stomach, half feeding,lite snack)

 and still have a happy, friendly dog, that is the dog I keep. I'm not really concerned with sport, but some of the excercises are useful.I keep the pups that pass those test and get serious about training for a true protection dog. Iwould like to keep ALL the dogs that pass, but my budget will not allow it. I  do my best to get those I don't keep into the hands of either working people or those I trust.
 Other than that Ilook for a good dog with a hybrid look. I've had pitbulls for the last 12 years and I don't want to be reminded of that anymore, so no straight standard dogs. JMHO.

Hey Alpha I have a couple of questions, what breed do you breed for protection work. I like Malnois but have always really liked and been intrigued with Dutch Shepards. Also you say you had pitbulls for 12 years and don't want to be reminded of that, what is that? Did you have bad experiences with them? You don't have to elaborate just curious.

[alphabravo]

Okay Reuben, I'll speak up. I have zero(0) experience in hog hunting, but my dog does(she came to me from a hog hunting kennel). My true passion with dogs is protection training. I want a well rounded dog,but they must have a willingess to protect without being an overly aggressive POS.  My thought is about nerves and teperament. Any dog can be taught to bite(even labs LOL), but good nerves and temperament cannot be taught.  If I can expose pups to different situations, surfaces,objects, dogs and people and do it at different times of day andunder different feeding circumstances(fullbelly,empty stomach, half feeding,lite snack)

 and still have a happy, friendly dog, that is the dog I keep. I'm not really concerned with sport, but some of the excercises are useful.I keep the pups that pass those test and get serious about training for a true protection dog. Iwould like to keep ALL the dogs that pass, but my budget will not allow it. I  do my best to get those I don't keep into the hands of either working people or those I trust.
 Other than that Ilook for a good dog with a hybrid look. I've had pitbulls for the last 12 years and I don't want to be reminded of that anymore, so no straight standard dogs. JMHO.

Hey Alpha I have a couple of questions, what breed do you breed for protection work. I like Malnois but have always really liked and been intrigued with Dutch Shepards. Also you say you had pitbulls for 12 years and don't want to be reminded of that, what is that? Did you have bad experiences with them? You don't have to elaborate just curious.

 I keep An AB right now for PP. I like dutchies also. Malis are usually to sketchy for me temperament wise. also a little too high strung.

 Actually I had a great pitbull for many years. I washed out several because the dog aggression was too much. They were also too high strung. the one I kept acted more like a white english bulldog(this is what a WEB breeder told me after I described his behavior) After he died, I just cant bring myself to own another one. Besides an old school bulldog is what I wanted all along.  The female I have now is close, but most AB breeders are either breeding for an overgrown english bulldog or a pitbull on steroids. I don't really want either. AMerican bulldogs are supposed to be something all their own, but the show world and the sport world twisted them.

[alphabravo]

 

 Also Rednose, If I could get my hands on a good Presa or Boerboel for protection, I would not say boo LOL!

[liefalwepon]

Would a Dogo make a good protection dog?


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[TheRednose]

 

 Also Rednose, If I could get my hands on a good Presa or Boerboel for protection, I would not say boo LOL!

Presa's and Boerboel's are no joke! but the one I really like because of how well they move for their size and they seem to be doing pretty good in the protection world are the Cane Corso's. I really like how well they move for their size, and from what I have seen they handle the training pretty well.

[TheRednose]

Would a Dogo make a good protection dog?

Hey Liefal where did you get your dogo from, did you get him from Cali chasers?

[liefalwepon]

He's only half Dogo, yes he's from cali


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[alphabravo]

 

 Also Rednose, If I could get my hands on a good Presa or Boerboel for protection, I would not say boo LOL!

Presa's and Boerboel's are no joke! but the one I really like because of how well they move for their size and they seem to be doing pretty good in the protection world are the Cane Corso's. I really like how well they move for their size, and from what I have seen they handle the training pretty well.

 I got a friend that keeps corsos. His are out of a line that is too hot. The Main stud of that line was notorious for biting show judges.

 His dogs are not as sharp, but they have that overly dominant temperament. Have to put a foot up their backside from 6 weeks until they get with the program. That I'm not into. I love that old school mastiff temperament: laid back unless called upon or needed. They can be hardheaded as pups, but with proper handling become great dogs

[Goose87]

Figured this fit this topic....


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[l.h.cracker]

Amen to that