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Semmes
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« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2015, 07:16:28 pm » |
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Oh...and just so you know...i may linebred down the road or may then outcross if it don't suit my vision. But in my lifetime I'll never try and refine something too dadgum much or create some sort of breed...i breed for me and not the dogs and will tweek it to suit myself so any line breeding I do will not ever be accelerated to the fact of detriment unless I happen to live alot longer than I expect lol
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2015, 07:45:35 pm » |
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It really don't matter what kind of prefermace animal it is. If you go back three history and research some of the ch's , Gr. Ch. In dogs , horses , Hell I bet even in cattle. You will find that most all have a great family in them and then a major cross in them it may be little are big but it's there. Also I would venture to say the Majority are even some what straight crosses to even scatter bred. Tons and tons of Vigor in them. Best x Best breedings. Also in my times with breeding dogs I have found that a lot of these types of great performance dog Best x Best make absolute great great dogs to cross great heavy bred families with. Because they have so much Vigor the can break down the most condensed families of dogs bringing them back from the dead to great family's again.
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Reuben
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« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2015, 07:49:39 pm » |
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Many years ago when the kemmer association (KSBA) was first started I bred a yellow pit bull to a yellow kemmer and all the pups were born yellow brindle about 10 pups...I called Robert Kemmer and asked him what he thought about it...he said when you bred kemmer to Kemmer all pups will be yellow...if you bred kemmer to another line of mt cur or another breed and they were also yellow...that there would be plenty of brindle...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2015, 08:04:55 pm » |
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My friend bred a papered kemmer to a bridle cur x cat all the pups where spotted or black he wanted a brindle but didn't happen lol. He bred that bridle dog to his mom which is spotted and got a brindle lol. But it was the only pup
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Reuben
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« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2015, 08:32:27 pm » |
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When I first bought some mt curs out of San Antonio areathe man also bred tthoroughbred horses...and he said it was easy to predict the color of the fillies and goals...but not so with dogs...
I am making mention of this because different species can produce totally different from another even when following the same principles...
Or something different x an be produced inside the same species due to scatter breeding...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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sanman
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« Reply #85 on: November 30, 2015, 05:37:43 am » |
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Great thread.
Now the question.
What are y'all's opinion on too tight? Wait until something shows up, or a specific number of generations? I read earlier that some lines handle it better than other. I am just trying to learn from you guys that have seen it and done it. Right now, I am on a 5th generation, no out cross at all.
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #86 on: November 30, 2015, 04:57:29 pm » |
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Mother nature is judge. Breed your dogs as tight as what they can stand. When you start loosein things such as size speed and other bells and whistles on proven family breedings that is mother nature telling u it's time to cross.
This is true with family line and inbreeding. This is not out crosses. Out crosses either click are you chit can them
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2015, 05:02:15 pm » |
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Whole great bloodlines can be ruined by a man that keeps line and inbreeding. Once you go so far at which is the stopping point when you go beyond that it is senseless and a waste of time at that stopping point your line of dogs can give no more no matter how much more you line are inbreed them.
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #88 on: November 30, 2015, 05:06:15 pm » |
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At that stopping point when you go beyond it is the time At which you are hurting your line and much more the line will go dang near worthless and will take way more out crosses than should be necessary to get back to where they need to be.
Sorry for three post but this Damn phone is hard to work lol
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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Reuben
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« Reply #89 on: November 30, 2015, 06:36:15 pm » |
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Great thread.
Now the question.
What are y'all's opinion on too tight? Wait until something shows up, or a specific number of generations? I read earlier that some lines handle it better than other. I am just trying to learn from you guys that have seen it and done it. Right now, I am on a 5th generation, no out cross at all.
I saw smaller testicles and smaller litters...5 or 6 pups...towards the end some of the pups hunted a little too hard...there were three that died from heat exhaustion...my belief was too much hunt and not quitting as long as there were hogs to run...or maybe it had something to do with genetics...or a combination of both...  My dogs started out with plenty of hunt and seems I got a little extra grit with a few and lots more hunt with some as well...but I was selecting for that... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #90 on: November 30, 2015, 06:51:28 pm » |
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there was a Kemmer dog named Gold nugget Jr. He didn't look like he was a hunting dog and I would have culled him on just looks because he didn't look like an athlete to me...he was linebred and inbred Gold Nugget until he was 7/8ths Gold Nugget...When bred to the right females he produced some outstanding powerful hunting dogs that became hunting champions...Gold nugget was known as a good looking hard hunting dog with a good nose for trailing and winding... the only second look I would make on Gold Nugget JR was cause he was homely looking to put it nicely...  and I saw one of his sons and he was about a 60 pound dog that was a sight for sore eyes and awesome looking...my limit I put on myself that day was 200 or maybe 300 dollars back around 25 years ago...but when I left out of there it was with JRs son for 600 dollars...I never saw the original gold nugget but that 600 dollar dog looked just like him...when comparing him to the original gold nugget pic... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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sanman
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« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2015, 08:39:33 pm » |
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Thanks TexasHD makes a lot of sense.
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Judge peel
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« Reply #92 on: November 30, 2015, 08:54:51 pm » |
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Ruben are those dogs still around
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #93 on: November 30, 2015, 09:11:48 pm » |
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Sanman
5 gens deep of nothing but family dogs bred is getting pretty deep. I seen where you said as you have went along the hunt in those dogs got harder and harder. That is a great sign for your line of dogs that have been bred deep and hard on nothing but family. I was gonna say in a post up there that if a man is breeding a family of hog dogs such as yourself, myself and others. The one and only thing when breeding like this is they should never ever start to loose their hunt as a matter of fact of anything stay even are even better gain more and more . When this happens in such a family of yours that tells me they are a very strong family of dogs that have been bred and culled right. When breeding such as this it is natural to loose other things size, speed, quickness, stamina but never ever hunt!
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TheRednose
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« Reply #94 on: November 30, 2015, 09:27:31 pm » |
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Hey Jimmy glad to see you on, I was hoping to see you get in on this post. Great info!
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sanman
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« Reply #95 on: November 30, 2015, 10:13:48 pm » |
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Mr. Jimmy, I can't take any credit for these, Mr. Larry had done all the real nuts and bolts of it, I am just trying to continue on and make dogs that hunt the way I want them to. So far, knock on wood, it has been working. He only started with three dogs, so there isn't much room to work with. I have been trying to go back and catch the older generation dogs, in hopes of prolonging the issues. It's just a he'd scratcher on where to go from here, lol
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #96 on: December 01, 2015, 12:20:57 am » |
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Hey Red nose how I doing. Yeah had to give my two cents on this one lol.
Sanman, that's Me Parker u talking about? A buddy of mine had a very heavy Parker ftp he bred her to a male that came from me names Rambo "Heavy Joe/Legs dog" from what I heard those dogs where doing very very well at a real young age. That was two heavy family's crosses mine and Mr Parkers didn't surprise me a bit how well they turned out from what I heard. Vigor. I wish I had one of them to take back to my family with Parker out I like the way he breeds his dogs.
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #97 on: December 01, 2015, 12:27:38 am » |
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Red nose I gotta buy me a new pc this phone is killing my old butt.....When I do I will tell you the ending on some of those old bulldog stories, lol the truth not all that BS what's on their pedigrees. Lol
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #98 on: December 01, 2015, 12:53:14 am » |
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Sanman, that's the thing about great bred family dogs bred like you say for years and years. When bred like that and bred true without any penmanship being done in how they are bred along the way. Those types of family dogs presents and traits will be felt for gens and gens. I know of bulldogs that where born back in the 60's that where bred true to form up till this day and let me tell you there is Damn near clones being born till this day of the dogs they bred back then. Color, build, ability and everything else they ain't lost a Damn thing! But let me tell you along the way there where SELECTED CROSSES bred only when needed and then straight back to the family they went. Regardless what's on paper when you get faimlys that are worth their salt for 50 years and still producing like day one and all the Vigor is still there you can bet your sweet behind they didn't just get that way from never making a cross some where along the was.....Hell even a dumb Ass Scientist genealogist will tell us this. Lol
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TheRednose
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« Reply #99 on: December 01, 2015, 01:33:41 am » |
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Red nose I gotta buy me a new pc this phone is killing my old butt.....When I do I will tell you the ending on some of those old bulldog stories, lol the truth not all that BS what's on their pedigrees. Lol
Im going to hold you to that my friend. Check your messages, I just shot you a pm. |
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