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Mr. Oinker
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« on: December 15, 2015, 06:50:47 pm » |
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In most cases does crossing a good strike or bay dog with a really gritty pit lessen the quality of nose on the pups or do you tend to get the best of both worlds with a medium range strike dog with enough size and grit to catch or help catch? Is it just a bit of luck and smart culling or will the majority of the litter be the "best of both worlds?"
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Mr. Oinker
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 06:52:07 pm » |
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**Didn't mean the subject to be that lol, just forgot to change it from a draft post**
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dallas22
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2015, 07:22:25 pm » |
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I haven't been hunting long but i had a pit/cat that had a lot of hunt and was catchy. But i sold her i wish i would have kept her. I now in my yard gave a cat/pit that aint worth a flying flip that was supposedly came from great dogs. Ive culled but my girlfriend wants me to find it a home. I gave that dog plenty of chances. The way i see it u just never know but can only hope for the best . An cull hard before anybody in your family gets attached.
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IF YOUR DUMB YOU BETTER BE TOUGH!!!
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Shotgun wg
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2015, 11:10:26 pm » |
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When crossing dogs of any kind the chances run the gambit. You could get the best of both or the worst. Every cross was a shot in the dark at some point tho, just don't be surprised if the outcome is not as you hope.
Shotgun
Arkansas
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Shotgun
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Hunt the Grunt
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 07:27:54 am » |
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There are exceptions but I think for the most part, crossing a track dog with pit produces mostly dogs with less hunt/nose and more grit. Its like your creating a diluted dog from both sides. Its more than likely not going to have the same hunt as the cat or black mouth and more than likely not going to have the same grit as the pit. That being said, that may be what your after and there are also a lot of good cross dogs that hunt well and produce plenty of bacon. IMO
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Sambo5500
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 11:32:19 am » |
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This topic has been talked about quit a few times and I've spoken about the one I have a few times too. That being said from what I've seen it usually doesn't happen the way you want it. Mine is exactly what most want from the cross. Short to medium range hunt and straight catch. I think this happened because the cur side. Cur was also short to medium and pretty much straight catch too. I don't think it works well with a long range or loose cur. I think the right crosses make very good all around dogs. Mine can be a straight catch dog with long range looses dogs. He can be a DVD with other rough dogs or he can be hunted solo as a one out finder holder type dog. I have done all 3 successfully with him.
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Sambo5500
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 11:43:12 am » |
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RCD not DVD. Stupid auto correct!
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Reuben
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 07:13:58 pm » |
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If UI were to breed to a pitbull it would be a gritty hound or mt cur...dogs that are bred to hunt and the mt cur with a good nose to trail and wind...
cat or bmc with pit can be good as long as the dogs are bred to hunt and not to just work cattle...
also I would not breed a loose baying dog to a pitbull...might as well use a game pitbull that wants to hunt and is bulilt more like a game bred pit...
in my minds eye I want streamlined bodies for endurance and speed...gaminess to add to the "hunt and want too" to want to hunt and catch game...
to me there is no point in breeding loose bay/hunting dogs to a pitbull...that in my mind will breed an even higher amount of range from loose to grit and in between...
I have spent many hours thinking on this one and have 1 1/2 redbonex 1/2 pit...2 dogs that are 1/2 mt cur x 1/4 redbone and 4 pups that are 1/2 plott x 1/4 mt cur 1/8 redbone 1/8 pitbull...
one day we will be hunting dogs that catch game quickly and quietly...right now I am interested in quickly...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Silverton Boar Dogs
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 07:47:45 pm » |
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cat or bmc with pit can be good as long as the dogs are bred to hunt and not to just work cattle...
Reuben, curious as to why you have this thinking about the "cow dog" blood. Why would dogs bred for cow work not hunt? In my opinion, and experience, the job description and working ability of a cow bred cur type dog is at a much higher level than the average hog dog. And they should have all the hunt of a hog dog. On the topic at hand, I tried this type of cross years ago, Catahoula, Plott, Pit, bred and selected for four or five generations. I produced many nice dogs and one outstanding female that is still alive and with a friend, but I culled the whole line except for her. Lack of holding style and dog aggression that showed up at 4-5 yrs old. I stuck with the straight proven cow dogs and never looked back other than to keep a few 1/2 or 1/4 Plott dogs for when I dont have to work the next day. |
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Reuben
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 09:07:27 pm » |
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back in the early 1980's and 1990s there seemed to be a high ratio of bmc and Catahoula that didn't have the hunt I wanted...there were others that felt the same way...it is kind of like when one has a bad experience with a certain model of pick up a few times...you tend to stay away from them...having said that I have seen some that had the best of both worlds such as hunt and stopping and keeping a hog bayed without pressuring them to break bay...
I am sure that there are many dogs now that can do both on account their are many more hog hunters today that use them...
you are right about the aggression with some of the dogs. the mt curs I used to breed and keep I had to keep an eye on them when loose in the back yard or in the dog box...but they had the ability to find a hog rather quickly and had lots of hunt and were fairly good at stopping a hog...I like dogs of that nature as well...kind of like a race horse...they are a little more trouble to keep but well worth the effort...
my theory as well as others who felt the same way felt like many cow dogs in our area with the smaller ranches used cow dogs that did not have to find cattle but only to help gather and drive them...and those cow dogs that wanted to range out probably were culled on account they would get over to another ranch and get in trouble for baying another mans cows...so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to start thing what we were thinking...so that is why I said if the cow dog is also bred to hunt then it is possible to have an excellent hog dog...
I like mt curs but so many are now bred for squirrel hunting and so many are bred smaller with the short ear and are not proven to run a track for a long ways...one must look long and hard to find a good one any more for a hog dog and that is why I looked towards the plott hound...my next cross will be mt cur but I believe I have captured some of the good plott traits and hope to add a little more catch to my dogs with that shot of pit...
I reckon in west texas where you have lots and lots of real estate long range cow dogs that can trail and wind cows are needed and that there are the same traits needed for a hog dog...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Bo Pugh
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 09:41:50 pm » |
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It shouldn't be any " really gritty pits" they should either be game or not. And by game I mean when you turn them loose they don't mind dieing holding a hog. A really gritty cur dog don't have the stamina a pit has. Even a half cur half pit will coward out or back up and bark when it starts getting real in a bad hole with a hog. A good pit don't care if it's the only dog there or if his guts are cut out he's not letting go.
To answer your question. If you breed a cur dog to a pit. More than likely what your going to get is short range dogs with hot noses and not a lot of bottom. Not the best of both worlds unless you want short range hot nose and not long races. from what I have seen in these dogs their not good by their selves cause they don't know if they want to catch or bark so you will need about 3 or so.
What is it you expect to get out of a dog? What kinda dog do you consider to be the " ideal "
Dog that you would like to hunt with
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liefalwepon
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 10:30:29 pm » |
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RCD not DVD. Stupid auto correct!
Dang I thought somebody came up with a new kind of dog lol How much does your dog weigh? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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WHACK EM N STACK EM!!!
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liefalwepon
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 10:33:50 pm » |
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If UI were to breed to a pitbull it would be a gritty hound or mt cur...dogs that are bred to hunt and the mt cur with a good nose to trail and wind...
cat or bmc with pit can be good as long as the dogs are bred to hunt and not to just work cattle...
also I would not breed a loose baying dog to a pitbull...might as well use a game pitbull that wants to hunt and is bulilt more like a game bred pit...
in my minds eye I want streamlined bodies for endurance and speed...gaminess to add to the "hunt and want too" to want to hunt and catch game...
to me there is no point in breeding loose bay/hunting dogs to a pitbull...that in my mind will breed an even higher amount of range from loose to grit and in between...
I have spent many hours thinking on this one and have 1 1/2 redbonex 1/2 pit...2 dogs that are 1/2 mt cur x 1/4 redbone and 4 pups that are 1/2 plott x 1/4 mt cur 1/8 redbone 1/8 pitbull...
one day we will be hunting dogs that catch game quickly and quietly...right now I am interested in quickly...
I've heard the redbone x pits are hunting machines Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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WHACK EM N STACK EM!!!
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parker49
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 08:14:42 am » |
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problem with crossing is you have a hard time getting that cross to reproduce the same ..... now I'm talking crossing say straight pitts and curs ..... all cur breeds should have perty much whatever you like in the breed you just gotta find it .....
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Sambo5500
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2015, 09:50:50 am » |
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My dog weighs 55-60# range. I have plenty of pics if you'd like to see him. Just pm me cuz my pics never want to post right. Your more than welcome to put the pics up. Also, not everyone one of these crosses will back up and bark. Mine never has and he's been on plenty big hogs by himself and with others. Some do actually turn out like you want them. Most don't though. I'm in the process of finding a female that is also cur x pit with the same qualities as mine. A buddy has one that is promising. If she keeps it up we may breed to see if we can reproduce them. Mine is also not short winded like many are. But as I've stated many times, mine is definitely the exception and not the rule.
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Skrag
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2015, 11:28:39 am » |
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 catXbulldog he isn't catchy but gets rough. Accidental breeding from my male lose baying cat to my wife's house dog she was pit with some Stafford shire terrior. I bobbed his tail just because I wanted to and only keep him out of curiosity. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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dallas22
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2015, 02:19:47 pm » |
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catXbulldog he isn't catchy but gets rough. Accidental breeding from my male lose baying cat to my wife's house dog she was pit with some Stafford shire terrior. I bobbed his tail just because I wanted to and only keep him out of curiosity. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Will he hunt |
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IF YOUR DUMB YOU BETTER BE TOUGH!!!
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Reuben
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2015, 10:06:42 pm » |
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If UI were to breed to a pitbull it would be a gritty hound or mt cur...dogs that are bred to hunt and the mt cur with a good nose to trail and wind...
cat or bmc with pit can be good as long as the dogs are bred to hunt and not to just work cattle...
also I would not breed a loose baying dog to a pitbull...might as well use a game pitbull that wants to hunt and is bulilt more like a game bred pit...
in my minds eye I want streamlined bodies for endurance and speed...gaminess to add to the "hunt and want too" to want to hunt and catch game...
to me there is no point in breeding loose bay/hunting dogs to a pitbull...that in my mind will breed an even higher amount of range from loose to grit and in between...
I have spent many hours thinking on this one and have 1 1/2 redbonex 1/2 pit...2 dogs that are 1/2 mt cur x 1/4 redbone and 4 pups that are 1/2 plott x 1/4 mt cur 1/8 redbone 1/8 pitbull...
one day we will be hunting dogs that catch game quickly and quietly...right now I am interested in quickly...
I've heard the redbone x pits are hunting machines Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk there used to be a hog hunter around here that ran pitbull and redbone crosses and he caught lots of hogs with them... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Skrag
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2015, 10:38:26 am » |
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catXbulldog he isn't catchy but gets rough. Accidental breeding from my male lose baying cat to my wife's house dog she was pit with some Stafford shire terrior. I bobbed his tail just because I wanted to and only keep him out of curiosity. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Will he hunt He has been in the woods less than 10 times because I didn't get to hunt much last year. But with that being said he has always been hunted with his dad and stays step for step for miles. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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