Breeding Better Dogs 101...

[Reuben]

lets hear some ideas and experiences/know how...

we sure have a lot of culls out there...hopefully we can all learn by sharing our knowledge so we can up the game...EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS HAS BEEN AN AWESOME SITE FOR ME...

What took me yours to learn can be learned rather quickly right here...and the best part it is free... 

[oconee]

Reubens I'll stay out of this one because I have trouble communicating my message without stepping on toes but after reading countless posts you have made it do believe you and I agree on most everything and would enjoy talking to you sometime.  (580) 258-0206.     Call anytime, I look forward to talking.

[TheRednose]

I found a list of questions in the internet that I found interesting. If you are thinking about a long term breeding program you might want to ask yourself some of these questions. Let me say now I am not saying you have to follow this or anything else, I am going to stay out of that part of this discussion. I just wanted to add a little food for thought on the subject.

1.   Not everyone should breed dogs, be honest with yourself.
2.   What are your reasons for breeding?
3.   What are you breeding for? What is your end goal?
      a.   What are the characteristics that it will take to accomplish this?
               i.   Prioritize them from most important to least important.
4.   Do you have the resources you will need to accomplish your goal; if not do you have the means to get them?
5.   Do you understand basic genetics? If not are you willing to learn?
6.   Do you have the resources and means to test your product?
7.   Do you have the ability to cull what doesn’t work or is undesirable?
8.   Sometimes what you want is already out there and you can just tweak it, you don’t always have to re-create the wheel. Some people get visions of grandeur and cannot help themselves.

Just thought this might spice up the convo.

[Scott]

Adding to the Rednose points of consideration...1) if you can't be honest about dogs (your dogs, others dogs, any dogs), you shouldn't be breeding. 2) Knowledge and experience are helpful. 7) if you can't or won't cull...you shouldn't be breed.

I'm sure there are more pearls out there...

[T-Bob Parker]

I think it's helpful to have what you consider excellent already in a dog, then breed up from there.
If you're breeding to achieve some overly lofty goal, you'd be better off acquiring and culling thru dogs till you get closer first.

It has worked that way for me anyhow

[T-Bob Parker]

All I mean by that is dont breed two labs hoping to have a litter of golden retrievers

[Judge peel]

The problem is $$$ plane and simple. There are good dogs every where and bad ones every where it's all to the eye of the beholder. Pride breeds a lot of dogs so does ignorance. We can't all be top breeders nor should we. It's kinda easy to me to see who does what they do right and who don't. We should all want to be better then the next guy if not I don't see the point lol.


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[tie em up]

I haven't been runnin dogs long. I sure don't know everything. But I was lucky. We have great friends that have been doin it for years and years. An I have a fella I meet by chance who lives down in flordia.( I know that has nothing to do but he has some kick ass cow dogs an he GAVE me a puppy that is gonna make a good one)  My brother got a dog he wants to breed. She's a dang good one to. She's fast, smart, gritty, an will flat out take a track an beat the bushes. She's 6 or 7 this year. Maybe 8 to be honest we don't know how old she us. When he breeds her me him an a buddy are gonna split the pups. Raise them. An cull what doesn't work. I talked to ruben about her one time. And he gave me alot of really good advice an my cowboy buddy said alot of the same stuff ruben did. Iv been reading this forum for like 2 years.

[tie em up]

In other words I got lucky. Got dogs that suited me an that I like an that's why I feed em. We are gonna mix it up a little bit an tweck it a little by breeding the old school cow dog to a English pointer. I think the bird dog will give done extra endurance, heat tolerence, an maybe some more nose an gameness. We are going to do this once an see the results. If it don't workout it won't stay.

[Goose87]

I love this topic, but I'm like oconee im just going to spectate because there's  to many that only see things their way and are convinced that there's is the only way, every man is going to have something he likes in a dog that's different from the next, they maybe little differences but no two to the bone dog men are going to agree on 100% of things 100% of the time...

[Goose87]

I think to many people make to many excuses, and get to attached to their dogs, don't get me wrong I love each and everyone of my dogs, but if they can't get the job done they just can't get it done, that's when you have to be honest with your self, you won't ever get a silver purse out of a sows ear....

[7Mhunter]

You can't breed to outstanding dogs together and expect super stars every time. Some of the best dogs are the sorriest producers and some of the sorriest dogs are the best producers. The only way I see fit for a "cull" in my eyes to change hands if it will fit someone else's needs. Cows, walk hunters, exc.


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[bignasty]

are you saying walk hunters use culls? lol

[7Mhunter]

No I'm saying the way I hunt a dog that needs to be walked is a cull in my eyes but may be a gold mine in someone else's.


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[BA-IV]

are you saying walk hunters use culls? lol

I've culled quite a few dogs that would consistently find and bay hogs if you put them in fresh sign, but I'm not walk hunting a dog anymore nor do I sell hog dogs...different strokes for different folks.

[oconee]

The consistency  lies within the family.  Families or strains of dogs will always produce more consistently than dogs thrown together from other families and strains.   One dog from a particular line may show characteristics unconcistent but will "breed" more along the lines of the families characteristics.    This is why I feel it's very important to research the strain of dog you dealing with and find what suits your style of hunting then stay within that family if it suits your needs.   It's not "fool proof" buy it personally  feel it's the best way to keep what traits you needo for your style.   Have you ever noticed the good athletes  you knew growing up in school had athletic families and the fat kids entire family was fat.  (I know because I was the fat kid.  Lol)   

[7Mhunter]

are you saying walk hunters use culls? lol

I've culled quite a few dogs that would consistently find and bay hogs if you put them in fresh sign, but I'm not walk hunting a dog anymore nor do I sell hog dogs...different strokes for different folks.

Agreed I am not going to own a dog I have to walk for it to hunt or to walk up on hogs for it to bay or find one.

[gary fuller]

my 2 cents.... first what exactly do you want to produce from any breeding?  to select 2 individuals for a breeding it sure helps to know about the dogs behind the dogs you plan to breed. and are you trying to use and keep a set line and if so why is this line so good?  if you pick 2 individuals to breed because they are great at something , you might check to see if they were the only great or even good dogs in their litters or were their siblings equally talented. good chance if they were the only good dogs in their litters that they might not throw themselves at all. and an idea ive had for many years  is typically dont breed to the superstar, breed to what produced the superstar. then as was stated by others here... ya can breed great to great and get doodoo and breed doodoo to doodoo and get great. not the way to breed but it does happen. in the end breeding can leave you scratchin your head. sadly most in any animal use arent able to keep many individuals and do many breedings to find out whats best. and if you get lucky and find a prepotent individual.. breed on it and keep finding and using the prepotent individuals from each breeding if you can. guess it was a quarter instead of 2 cents,lol.

[TheRednose]

The consistency  lies within the family.  Families or strains of dogs will always produce more consistently than dogs thrown together from other families and strains.   One dog from a particular line may show characteristics unconcistent but will "breed" more along the lines of the families characteristics.    This is why I feel it's very important to research the strain of dog you dealing with and find what suits your style of hunting then stay within that family if it suits your needs.   It's not "fool proof" buy it personally  feel it's the best way to keep what traits you needo for your style.   Have you ever noticed the good athletes  you knew growing up in school had athletic families and the fat kids entire family was fat.  (I know because I was the fat kid.  Lol)   

I agree with this, but there are some real important factors to this in my opinion. First you need to know how to line breed to preserve the family over time. Some people get told stay within a family and then breed way too tight and lose a lot of what made that family good after 4+ generations. Then they have to outcross to add back vigor and anytime you outcross its always a gamble. It may click, it may not. Regardless, knowing outcrosses that work is worth its weight in gold. So knowing how to linebreed is critical, and finding outcrosses that produce high percentages is also super valuable. Those two things can keep a family alive and producing for a long long time.

Some people start their own family based on 1-4 dogs and they breed looking for certain characteristic's and culling real hard. Called selective breeding. After 4+ generations of line breeding on those dogs you have your own family. The key to that is starting with a prepotent dog or dogs. So many people do not understand what a prepotent dog is or what prepotency is. A good example of that is thorough bred race horses. Some of the greatest sires in history had great mile type speed but were never great racehorses. But they could reproduce that speed in their offspring at high percentages and that's what made them great. Just some thoughts taught to me by old time bulldogs guys I have had the honor of speaking with over the years. Take it for what it is worth.

[Slim9797]

Just one comment and it's on the walk hunting remark. I can rig, walk, road, and cast my dogs. I walk hunt mostly due to necessity. Some of my spots are a bunch of 2-300 acre places put together and it's just not practical to try to drive an atv through all them places going in and out of gates and down roads. I don't think I've came across any dog that "had to be walked" for it to hunt. Either  a dog hunts or it don't. Now my dogs might not cast like say the tuskers guys dogs cast. But they will cast. And cover ground out of the truck without me moving.


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