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UNDERDOG
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2016, 08:25:18 am » |
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We were talking about this and he said you can't make a dog something he's not, its ALL in the breeding and either he has it in him or doesn't. He said with a real hunting dog, you don't train it to hunt you only train it what not to hunt lol.
Exactly!!! |
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UNDERDOG
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« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2016, 08:29:03 am » |
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I can get the best out of a dog if he has it, I can assure you of that! As far as taking a 6 mth old to the woods, I will not take a pup until I feel he is ready to contribute and make an impact on things. I have heard these stories of world beaters putting it on older dogs at freakish early ages but I just can't help but wonder........... When 6-8 mth old pups start showing out I will strongly evaluate my pack, I don't care how special a pup is.
I like to see those 6 mo old wonders at a year and a half....more ofter than not they are not around as they never got better than they were at 6 mo. |
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Slim9797
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« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2016, 09:22:40 am » |
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I like to see those 6 mo old wonders at a year and a half....more ofter than not they are not around as they never got better than they were at 6 mo.
what's led you to believe this? Honest question |
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We run dillo dogs that trash on hogs
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parker49
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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2016, 09:31:38 am » |
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if we all knew what we think we know about breeding top dogs they'd be ten cents a piece ..........
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parker49
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« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2016, 09:35:59 am » |
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if a dog is doing real good at 6 months old he or she is more than likely going to make a dog...... but you do not know how one is going to mature and finish ........
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UNDERDOG
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« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2016, 09:38:45 am » |
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I like to see those 6 mo old wonders at a year and a half....more ofter than not they are not around as they never got better than they were at 6 mo.
what's led you to believe this? Honest question Honest answer....my eyes. when i ran beagles in the trials there was always a bad lil young dog tearing up the hunts his first season, next season he was gone, they never seemed to get better than they were at 6mo. There are some like you say that keep getting better but in my opinion the ones who make the long hual are the ones that start at 10-12 mo old and keep progressing with age and get better every trip. Thats the type I like to hunt,one that just gets better every time vs the 6 mo wonder dogs. |
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« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 09:50:15 am by UNDERDOG »
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Reuben
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2016, 09:44:44 am » |
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some of the best dogs I have had showed me as pups that they were on track to be just that...
but having said that I have had pups that stayed out of the fights for pecking order and side stepped confrontations with their siblings...yet were almost like bull dogs on a hog by a little over a year...and the tough siblings backed up and bayed...yes it is a crap shoot more often than not but when I raise my own pups and I am observant then I can be right more often than not...of course I am talking about an established line of dogs...
when I talk about breeding dogs I am talking about an established line of dogs...
I do have one question I will go ahead and ask and then answer because I think this represents most anyone offered the opportunity...
If I went to a breeder to buy a pup that was selling 4 pups and I wanted the best one of these 6 month old pups and one particular pup looked and acted right and when they were turned out that one pup went and made a round and I observed a squirrel run up a tree...and the pup winded the squirrel that he could not see...and then he ran towards where the scent came from and he trailed to the tree and lets say the pup was excited and was working hard trying to locate the squirrel that he never found...and the 3 other pups are just hanging around for the ride and actually trying to get that pup to play instead...
so which of the 4 pups would I buy?
to me it is no brainer...the pup that showed natural hunting ability...
I like early starting dogs that reproduce more of the same...that is a goal to shoot for...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2016, 10:01:02 am » |
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most of the pups I raised started at 9 and ten month old and were pretty decent dogs by a year to 14 months...but I liked those that started younger that were trying to do what was bred into them...the want to hunt and catch game...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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oconee
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2016, 10:38:49 am » |
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Reuben I suppose I would be a liar if I said I wouldn't pick the obvious pup but it's far more complicated than that and we all know it. By now i'my sure you've seen enough pups mature to know there's no way anyone can say how them other three will turn out. This is exactly my point. I show all my pups game ages between 6-9 months and years I like to see them do things I like but you can bet your butt i'my not pulling any plugs until they all get an equal opportunity at a reasonable age. The point I was trying to make was NO 6-9 mth old pup should shine in good company and I simply don't care what they do before I start them at about 9 mths. That's just me.
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Judge peel
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2016, 10:45:28 am » |
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A lot of good dogs got naps while sub par got feed to long that's why I agree with oconee on this. Just because a pup does good young don't mean it will be better then the rest just means he started first which is great but take with a grain of salt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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oconee
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« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2016, 10:53:41 am » |
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I had a great dog man explain it to me like this. "They all start, some at 4 mths, some at 10 mths. You can't judge them until they start and what they do before they start is irrelevant." If one doesn't show me what I want at a year old he's done but I understand this man's concepts. As far as the 6 mth old barn burners go, everyone wants to brag on their super young pups because less is expected at that age. The point is, I'm only concerned about what's expected when they are old enough to hang with the big dogs.
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Reuben
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« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2016, 11:19:57 am » |
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A good feeling is knowing that when you turn your dogs out they will look as good as the any...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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UNDERDOG
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« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2016, 11:55:18 am » |
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The point I was trying to make was NO 6-9 mth old pup should shine in good company and I simply don't care what they do before I start them at about 9 mths. That's just me.
Agreed. |
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cgasch
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« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2016, 06:03:45 pm » |
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It's simple. Feed them a constant supply of pigs and if you like what they do keep him if not cull him. You cannot ever predict how the genes will match up. Too many possibilities.
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Reuben
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« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2016, 06:42:29 pm » |
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Too many possibilities is right...
some folks say the pups can only be as good as the parents which is not true...the truth is "the pups can only be as good as what the parents have in them"...because they can be better or worse...
Proper handling/raising can bring out the best in a hunting dog...
Or can ruin a pup that has potential with the wrong handling...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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oconee
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« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2016, 08:36:43 pm » |
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I agree no one can "predict" but a guy can dang sure put the odds in his favor by doing his homework on the pedigrees and ancestry of the dogs. Find a family of dogs that have produced what you need over a few generations and breed dogs that stack as many of the ancestors that suit your needs and you'll be surprised what you can accomplish. To many folks get caught in breeding best individual to the best individual and neglect to pay any attention to the ancesty. The dogs will likely breed more like whats behind them than they do themselves. JMO
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Reuben
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« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2016, 09:45:02 pm » |
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I agree no one can "predict" but a guy can dang sure put the odds in his favor by doing his homework on the pedigrees and ancestry of the dogs. Find a family of dogs that have produced what you need over a few generations and breed dogs that stack as many of the ancestors that suit your needs and you'll be surprised what you can accomplish. To many folks get caught in breeding best individual to the best individual and neglect to pay any attention to the ancesty. The dogs will likely breed more like whats behind them than they do themselves. JMO
I agree...the hardest part about starting a line of dogs is finding a family of dogs that will get you started in the right direction... but I will add that I will do all I can in picking the best pups as I see it at the time...one can not always keep the whole litter...so what I do is test the pups and might cull the obvious at 6-8 weeks, keep 6 pups to about 16 weeks of age and cut one more at 6 months and more than likely what I keep after that will make good dogs but only the best of the 4 remaining will get breeding privileges...sometimes of those 4 I will keep 2 if that was all I needed...but it is well worth the expense in doing it that way... as the line is developed we will see a higher percentage of keepers per litter...and they culling bar can be raised...I call it purifying the gene pool...the cream rises to the top... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Slim9797
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« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2016, 09:55:23 pm » |
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I agree no one can "predict" but a guy can dang sure put the odds in his favor by doing his homework on the pedigrees and ancestry of the dogs. Find a family of dogs that have produced what you need over a few generations and breed dogs that stack as many of the ancestors that suit your needs and you'll be surprised what you can accomplish. To many folks get caught in breeding best individual to the best individual and neglect to pay any attention to the ancesty. The dogs will likely breed more like whats behind them than they do themselves. JMO
I know literally nothing when it comes to breeding dogs, so I'm asking questions in the attempt to learn..... That being said.... If you bred best individual to best individual a couple times, wouldn't you eventually be breeding dogs with good ancestry all the way around, even if you started with just 2 decent hunting scatter bred mutts? |
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We run dillo dogs that trash on hogs
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Reuben
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« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2016, 09:59:10 pm » |
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slim...it will be a longer road to get consistency...but yes it can be done...after all all breeds started out that way...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Slim9797
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« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2016, 10:02:49 pm » |
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Ok. That's was my exact train of thought. Figured there's no other way to breed your own line/family of dogs than to start that way, y'all are just referring to finding someone who has started to get a head start on where your trying to head with the dogs. Thanks for the quick reply Reuben
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We run dillo dogs that trash on hogs
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