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TexasHogDogs
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Yes to be a breeder of a line are lines of dogs does not happen over nite. 20 yrs invested and you are just getting warmed up. Yes also back in the day you are right we had a network of friends and family that dogs where sent out just to keep the dogs close to home. Lord be with the man that let one of our family dogs out. It took me years and years to realise a family of dogs cannot reach its full producing potential without some help from another family of dogs. It's only in reason to figure out why and how. Lines of dogs go stale no matter how great they are over time being bred over and over and over it just stands to reason this is the only thing that can happen over time. A breeder that is not willing to adjust to what his dogs and line are telling him is a breeder on the decline Along with his line. I have seen folks get a holt of some old stale inbred lines of dogs bred great and true but stale from no new refreshing blood to let it breath then a rookie comes along and breeds his scatter bred from hell and back dog but a great dog at what he does and Boom he gets famous lol and a new line of dogs is born. Don't BS yourself it sure has happened. To each his on man . Do it how ever you want nothing wrong with that but if you should run into a backlash of just par dogs you might want to reflect back on these breeding post.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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liefalwepon
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I agree Old man.....I guess I should have said it better. What I meant was I have seen great great dogs in their like of work come in all shapes and forms. I've seen pups that look like crap turn into specimans of dogs as they aged.
I agree with a u said there on crossed, hybred , inbred and so on.
So at what ages are you culling pups from a litter, when you're choosing breeding stock? Do you keep the whole litter til a year? Til two years after you have hunted them a bit? Keep your most promising pups at six months? I know this subject has been talked about a lot on here, I'm interested in what you think |
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WHACK EM N STACK EM!!!
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TheRednose
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I agree with u on that Mr.Parker. I bred some of the purest Gr Ch Nigerino dogs in the world not country but world. Red dogs with black mask. We had six liters on the ground at one time and had to keep each liter in separate quaters. The reason being if a liter ever got out and got with another liter there was no way to be able to tell them apart. They where that close. Bred in all different ways threw Nigerino and they where all clones . Yes sir that's when you know you got things right that and their performace matches their pedigree and does what their pedigree says they should do not the other way around because a great beautful pedigree is pure a$$ wipe trash if the dog cannot perform to the level in which he is bred.
Good points Jimmy. I agree with the ped means nothing if the dogs can't perform. With performance animals I was always told don't forget that form follows function. It's great to have uniform looks, but it is even better if they have uniform traits and or characteristics. JMO I guess when you have both generation after generation that would be the proof you do have a line or family at that point. |
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TexasHogDogs
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I agree Old man.....I guess I should have said it better. What I meant was I have seen great great dogs in their like of work come in all shapes and forms. I've seen pups that look like crap turn into specimans of dogs as they aged.
I agree with a u said there on crossed, hybred , inbred and so on.
So at what ages are you culling pups from a litter, when you're choosing breeding stock? Do you keep the whole litter til a year? Til two years after you have hunted them a bit? Keep your most promising pups at six months? I know this subject has been talked about a lot on here, I'm interested in what you think Man its hard to anwer that a ?......Now a days is nothing like yesteryear. People don't have the time space patiences money and more to be able to keep whole liters at a rmtime. Use to we did none went no were specially if they were bred for breeding stock. Like was said above back in yesteryear we had a circle of friends family that we all kept dogs so none went nowhere but with us. This is ideal but if you can't then before long you will know what kinda eye for a dog you have.. |
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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Rednose, u know it's funny this breeding post come up on here. I was just talking to a old time bulldog breeder of 50 years are more just the other day. He owned the old Ma bitch he is the foundation to the Alein/Bullnumber 2 line of dogs and the White line of dogs. He also owned litermates to Tommy gun, Boecephus, had Chinaman sister, Red Danger, siblings to No Regrets , a ton of Klaus Zeke dogs the list just goes on and on and on. Back in the day this man went after performance dogs could give two Chris about the way they were bred. He bred best to best and the great dogs came like pop corn. Now in his older years he has bred dogs just to keep the lines alive. Anyway he ask me Jim what is your biggest regret with the dogs u had back then.
I thought about it all that nite really and called him back the next day. He said well what is it? LoL and I said I wish I had outcrossed my pure family dogs more if I had it is no telling what could have been made. It was already good but boy if I would not been so hard headed and had tunnel vision it's just no feeli,g what would have happened. Over the years some of those family dogs got out and men crossed them with like Redboy dogs , Hoote,s Pistol dogs, Alligator dogs and so on. The results a ton of great dogs that can be backed up with history. Gr Ch Hannah, Ch Brueax, GR Ch Katrina, Ch Sugar, Ch Causine, Ch Bandit, Balls to the wall Amy and the list goes on and on.
And this was just a few crossed that were done old old time family dogs.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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parker49
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i have a 300 acre wooded pasture to try dogs in ... i used to keep bout 40 dogs all the time .....i have access to thousands of acres to hunt .... so i have the resources to develop a line of dogs ..... the best dogs you ever own may come from the side of the road and look like a pure mutt .....but a real good line of dogs sure makes life easy ....I'm gonna let ya'll have it I've done said enuf .... thanks i love talking dogs .....
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TheRednose
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i have a 300 acre wooded pasture to try dogs in ... i used to keep bout 40 dogs all the time .....i have access to thousands of acres to hunt .... so i have the resources to develop a line of dogs ..... the best dogs you ever own may come from the side of the road and look like a pure mutt .....but a real good line of dogs sure makes life easy ....I'm gonna let ya'll have it I've done said enuf .... thanks i love talking dogs .....
Mr. Parker the proof is in the pudding and you sure have produced a lot of really good dogs, and one of the best lines around so nuff said. I really appreciate all of the good info you have added to this thread. Thank you sir! |
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TexasHogDogs
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Mr Parker....If Am not mistaken a buddy of mine down south Mike bred a Parker gyp to a male from my dogs and got some real real nice dogs.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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Semmes
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I've seen and hunted with and heard of even more folks that used a Parker dog as a cross and had good results.
I chalk it up to a person that stuck to their guns and developed that inbred/linebred-breed/line of dogs that were bred for consistency if working traits and geno/phenotype culled and sorted for generations of the dogs.
...as eluded to earlier. When one crosses a dog, one should pick a line bred dog with traits that compliment or add something to what they may be lacking. That is the only way to stack the deck on an outcross. Even though and individual dog may be exemplary if its scatter bred, or of unknown origin, there is absolutely no way of knowing what it will throw or the consistency it will throw it.
....it's a shot in the dark that will fail more times than not. I've seen it...it can be a heartbreaker, a madding futile dissapointment, and extremw waste of time for the person owning such a superstar of a dog with unknown or scattered origin of a dog trying to copy and set traits and could not even be possible or take longer than the resources of life of that person.
Sure folks can sometimes put two good dogs of dif origin together and get decent dogs. That ain't really so hard looking at things from a consistent outcrossing hybrid vigor type thing but when it comes to consistantly breeding on the cross is where rubber meets the road.
Haven't game dog folks for generations hung peds as line bred on battle/outcross dogs and they be world beaters but were useless for breeding and kept formula hidden? Seems like I've heard that before...lol
The real gold is folks that breed a line or breed tight and honestly and other folks can use those known factors to try and improve or reinvigorate there tight dogs Or vise versa.
I know this is like common knowledge to most but just tryn to give a shout out to those that been and are willing to stick such a thing thru...
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Semmes
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Guess moral of the story is dont piss in the wind if ya got nuff room to turn on around.... This coming from a guy whose shoes and pants legs always wet
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justincorbell
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i have a 300 acre wooded pasture to try dogs in ... i used to keep bout 40 dogs all the time .....i have access to thousands of acres to hunt .... so i have the resources to develop a line of dogs ..... the best dogs you ever own may come from the side of the road and look like a pure mutt .....but a real good line of dogs sure makes life easy ....I'm gonna let ya'll have it I've done said enuf .... thanks i love talking dogs .....
Mr. Parker the proof is in the pudding and you sure have produced a lot of really good dogs, and one of the best lines around so nuff said. I really appreciate all of the good info you have added to this thread. Thank you sir! I second that. Happy to have you here! |
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"stupids in the water these days, they're gonna drink it anyway." - Chris Knight
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oconee
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As important as the choices we make in our breeding is the attitude we approach other breeders with. I have respect for others but I have been disappointed in NEARLY almost experience I have had with other breeders and their dogs after hearing all their self proclaimed greatness. In short, I am impressed or believe what I see ONLY!
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Judge peel
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True that
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Reuben
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there are some that talk a good game except that their philosophy has changed a few times since I have read their posts on this site lol...just something to think about...
yes it is important to try and reproduce one dog and then down the road another...I changed my males 3 times and and then chose a male to be the hub...but I turned the females over as soon as they were proven to purify the bloodline for consistency...and then slowed the turnover rate once I was happy with it...and that was to keep from running into that inbreeding depression or tired blood as it was called back then...color was never a priority as long as there wasn't much white...and performance and correct conformation goes hand in hand...
picking and outcross is very important as well...yes...what I have now is 3 generations of dogs that are all males and even though they are all related, grandfather, sons, grandsons I consider them scatterbred because the dams are all different, even though the females were linebred/inbred...I am not in it to develop a new line but I will slowly move in the right direction...I have a pup that might be the hub when I do decide to breed to a female...I was thinking of some old time mt curs out of basically the same style of dogs I kept in the past out of Ohio...
but...I am also thinking Larry Parkers line of linebred/inbred dogs for several reasons...the pups I have now tend to look like his dogs and I do like that color...most parkers are slick coated and his tend to be silent...silent dogs are not a must for me...I prefer a dog that opens 3 or 4 times on a track when they locate to pull the other dogs in and then go silent...
some will say I am being disrespectful to the owner of the line for diluting his line...but I do not see it that way...
there is more to it than just breeding 2 good to great dogs even if related...choosing the very best puppies from that cross is more important that the cross if we want to maintain or improve on each generation...
another thing...a breeder can get results in 10 years as another can get the same results in 30 years...some can take a line and ruin it and others can take it to the next level...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Semmes
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I may be wrong, but your first sentence seems to be a thinly veiled dig at me, Rueben? I got thick skin...say what u mean...
My last post pretty much made clear my predicament and the precafist which which I stood before I lept. But not the first leap I made with dogs either btw.
I've got a plan and crossed dogs from consistant lines that have been line bred with a goal are included with a vision of one day making something out of it. But as with anything, yours included, it's a gamble. ....one just don't know til he tries.
Just like you, I got a plan. Guess we all TALK a pretty good game sometimes, must be human nature. But if you were referring to me, my philosophy hasn't changed one iota. I know there is an easier row ta hoe... But that just ain't as fun to me nor does it light any fire.
I may be remembering things wrong but I thought I read you write about breeding to a Parker once before on the past? Maybe not, If I'm wrong I stand corrected...
So a person can't give props to folks that produced something with a vision and stuck to it and note how valuable it is and that it is invaluable to others like myself even to I may choose to do like you and try and create a dif vision based on what we see without bring a hypocrite? ....pretty hypocritical of you there sir.
You have been a pretty open book as I have.
As you mix and match and evaluate, albeit longer than me, you still say you consider it scatter bred, which sir it is... And are 'slowly moving in the right direction'.....don't we all hope to be...you and me both as well as everyone that sticks two dif breeds together? I would hope so.
All I'm doing is saying folks out there in the bulldog, cur, hound and any other breed game that have already accomplished this is noteable and a greàt service to folks like me....and you
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oconee
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I actually thought Reuben might have been "diggin" on me with that first line. Maybe he should just tell us who he think is "talks a good game?"
As far as Larry Parkers line being diluted if you use it for an outcross goes, there's ONE sure fire way for Larry to keep stuff like that from happening. Now I personally don't know how hard it is to obtain Larry's bloodline (and truthfully don't care) but if any man wants to preserve his hard work he can simply keep it and not share it. It's been my experience that most like money more than they do their dogs.
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Judge peel
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Ain't that the truth
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Semmes
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I'd like to hear about these three gens of males makeup. From what I have gleaned its a mt bred to a pit then bred to a plott and now considering being bred to a Parker. I think I've seen you write of another cross or two that didn't pan out? Is this correct? If so it is scattered and doesn't seem to be set since the search is still on..the preverbial can kicked down the road. You speak as of the hard work has been done and there is only a tweak here and there to do? I'd like to here it more in depth about all three of these males gens and breeding and if I'm wrong or out of bounds I'd be first to admit it.
Me I got pups from three litters all whelped by same dam of three dif breeds, AB, catahoula, and pitbull, all strait catch dogs that I'm tryn scrap something out of. That's the hot mess I got...
Prob waste if time, but I ain't got nuthin funner or better ta do with my dogs or time with dogs lol
Easyier for me anyway cause I ain't tryn breed strike dogs or finder holders or nuthin fancy. Just good wind fast strait catch dogs lol. Guess I drew easy straw with my vision....I'm kinda one dimension able
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Reuben
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the first cross is a leggy pitbull and redbone cross that I only heard was a good redbone and the pit was tall and leggy and good RCD...the tight bred mt cur was tight kemmer out of some good dogs out of Louisiana and one of those pups I bred to a pure bred plott out of Wisconsin bred mainly for bear and hog...according to the owner she is a solid hog dog that relayed off from caught hogs...she is out of two of the best plotts the owner had so the pups I have are out of those crosses...the next step is probably the biggest step to take in breeding in the right direction...
I have culled many a pup and dog since I got back to the dogs...good dogs are hard to find...but it is the best way when wanting to keep a yard full of good dogs...at my age I have to be conservative while making my moves...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Semmes
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I don't understand how next step 'is prob biggest step in breeding' when as of now you got a crossed up jumble...seems like doubling down or tightening up would be biggest next step to me....
I think we have all culled plenty a dog and pup and spent a pretty penny doing so...
Comes a time if your gonna breed dogs seems like ya gotta try n make some chicken salad if ya catch my drift
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