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TexasHogDogs
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Maybe I miss read but I don't see how anybody could say you should never need a outcross.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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Also if you go far enuff bad in any dogs ped you will see a lot of dogs that where bred that where not any kin at all. That is how they all started out to begin with . As year have went on in my OPINION people have become obessesed with all this inbreeding, linebreeding and a ton have no ideal what they are doing. I would also venture to say I bet just as many family's of dogs have been hurt are ruined by this . If a mans family of dogs are so great then its his job to find the right click to go with it and know what to do when he does. Did you ever think if mutipal crosses don't work with your line maybe you get average dogs at best then maybe it aint the cross that is bad , maybe your family aint as strong as you think.
Hummmmmm
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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With these hunting dogs what is the number one thing? Its got to be hunt! If a dog don't hunt you aint got trap. Just like a bulldog if you aint got gamemess you aint got chit. So the number one thin on bulldogs is gamness.
You can inbreed a line of hunting dogs till their eyeballs fall out. You want to see how strong your line is do this. You gonna start to loose all the bells and whistles first but the same amount of hunt should still be there and if your line is strong it should even increase . If you do this and if your hunt starts to fade fast are first your in trouble. If after a moderate amount heavy inbreeding are line breeding your hunt is still there and increasing your family is strong even tho they are looking more and more bells and whistles along the way. If you get them extremely line and inbred and your hunt is there buddy then you know your family is a rock and gonna be around a long long time.
This is how a real family should be! Then as you go you add extra bells and whistles by outcrossing to great no kin families like yours. After the cross you go back to breeding back into your family and probably for many years before you need to do it again.
This is the test of a family.
This is how we tested our bulldog families if the gamness did not stay par to our standards as it was when we started are increase as we tightened. It was down the road.
Same as hunting dogs they loose their hunt after very little to average inbreeding . My advise is find you another family because of you in it to win it you gonna loose and be very disappointed down the road that is if your hearts in it!!!!
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TheRednose
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Also those peds, how many are 100% accurate. Dont know about hog dogs but bulldogs, I guarantee there are outcrosses in most dogs peds that none of us will ever know about. I'm all for linebreeding cousins to cousins nieces to uncles and I even like some inbreeding like parent sibling breedings. But the one thing I will try and not be is KENNEL BLIND!
If you look into performance animals such as back in the day with bulldogs or even game cocks most of the best actual performance animals were crosses. Now I am not saying that linebreeding isn't a good thing, I would be a hypocrite if I did because most of the dogs I have now are extremely line bred but just look; in game cocks the majority of birds that used to be used in derbies were crosses, hence the term battle cross. Bulldogs same thing, and what funny is if you are a bulldog history buff most of the top ROM dogs of the last 50 years were crosses too (Mayday, Jeep, Buck, Yellow) now go and think about that. How come most of the best dogs were not super tight "pure" family bred dogs??? Don't get this confused I am not saying there aren't good family bred dogs but I am just trying to make a point about being scared to outcross because it won't produce results. Facts would say otherwise.
I still agree with a lot of folks on here if you want consistency linebreeding is the way to go for sure, but like was said earlier I won't be afraid to try something if I think it will add.
Disclaimer these are only my observations and not saying anyone else is wrong.
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TexasHogDogs
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I can see what Ruben is trying to do. He is trying to start a line from scratch and to do that he is looking a different dogs and breeds to start to build what he wants to make a family out of! It takes a long long time but that's Rubens deal not a thing wrong with it.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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Hell these hog dogs I got over here I really just got serious in breeding them about 10-12 years ago. Am just now starting to scratch the surface off them. Hell am just put-putting. I will never get them to the quality of the bulldogs I bred and had for nearly 30 yrs. Why? Am 55 years old by the time I get 65 they might be getting close and I'll be burnt out and wore out.
Moral is aint nothing happening over nite when breeding a family of dogs.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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Reuben
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Hell these hog dogs I got over here I really just got serious in breeding them about 10-12 years ago. Am just now starting to scratch the surface off them. Hell am just put-putting. I will never get them to the quality of the bulldogs I bred and had for nearly 30 yrs. Why? Am 55 years old by the time I get 65 they might be getting close and I'll be burnt out and wore out.
Moral is aint nothing happening over nite when breeding a family of dogs.
I agree... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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Also those peds, how many are 100% accurate. Dont know about hog dogs but bulldogs, I guarantee there are outcrosses in most dogs peds that none of us will ever know about. I'm all for linebreeding cousins to cousins nieces to uncles and I even like some inbreeding like parent sibling breedings. But the one thing I will try and not be is KENNEL BLIND!
If you look into performance animals such as back in the day with bulldogs or even game cocks most of the best actual performance animals were crosses. Now I am not saying that linebreeding isn't a good thing, I would be a hypocrite if I did because most of the dogs I have now are extremely line bred but just look; in game cocks the majority of birds that used to be used in derbies were crosses, hence the term battle cross. Bulldogs same thing, and what funny is if you are a bulldog history buff most of the top ROM dogs of the last 50 years were crosses too (Mayday, Jeep, Buck, Yellow) now go and think about that. How come most of the best dogs were not super tight "pure" family bred dogs??? Don't get this confused I am not saying there aren't good family bred dogs but I am just trying to make a point about being scared to outcross because it won't produce results. Facts would say otherwise.
I still agree with a lot of folks on here if you want consistency linebreeding is the way to go for sure, but like was said earlier I won't be afraid to try something if I think it will add.
Disclaimer these are only my observations and not saying anyone else is wrong.
hybrid vigor can be a good thing...too much inbreeding can actually hurt... I do believe that too much inbreeding can and will work against us at some point as too much outcrossing will as well...we just need to gravitate towards a good place... having said all that...we talk quite a bit about how to breed better dogs but very little discussions on what to select and how to select in developing consistency and actually breeding better dogs as we move forward towards our goals... TexasHogdogs...I feel ok with what I have now...and more than likely not the consistency I would like...but I am ok with it...but it will probably be better than what some folks are thinking... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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oconee
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Oconee, you need a joint. I listen to everyone and pick and choose the ideas I wanna try. I wasn't referring to anyone at all but it's funny u think I was referring to u.
I just think your one of these keyboard mouths that doesn't have anything positive to say and decided to run your trap. Why don't you start contributing to our conversation instead stirring crap. By the way, I have never done a drug in my life and I could care less if you were referring to me. Take care |
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oconee
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Maybe I miss read but I don't see how anybody could say you should never need a outcross.
I don't think you do if you have what you need in a family of dogs. I'm not suggesting you can start with a single male and few females but in a good sized family it would be ridiculous to breed out if you liked what you have. Everyone needs to be looking to improve but it doesn't have to an outcross to strengthen the family if hard hunting, hard culling, and demanding breeding selection is taking place. |
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oconee
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Also if you go far enuff bad in any dogs ped you will see a lot of dogs that where bred that where not any kin at all. That is how they all started out to begin with . As year have went on in my OPINION people have become obessesed with all this inbreeding, linebreeding and a ton have no ideal what they are doing. I would also venture to say I bet just as many family's of dogs have been hurt are ruined by this . If a mans family of dogs are so great then its his job to find the right click to go with it and know what to do when he does. Did you ever think if mutipal crosses don't work with your line maybe you get average dogs at best then maybe it aint the cross that is bad , maybe your family aint as strong as you think.
Hummmmmm
When the Plott Breed was excepted into the Registry there were 42 registered Plotts in the first registry, ALL belonging to a select group of men surrounding the Plott family members. Would you like to go back and show me how they were not kin? There are countless strains and lines of Plotts across the Country nowadays but your theory would not hold up if you traced these dogs back "far enough." They were all kin, for sure. |
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TexasHogDogs
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Also if you go far enuff bad in any dogs ped you will see a lot of dogs that where bred that where not any kin at all. That is how they all started out to begin with . As year have went on in my OPINION people have become obessesed with all this inbreeding, linebreeding and a ton have no ideal what they are doing. I would also venture to say I bet just as many family's of dogs have been hurt are ruined by this . If a mans family of dogs are so great then its his job to find the right click to go with it and know what to do when he does. Did you ever think if mutipal crosses don't work with your line maybe you get average dogs at best then maybe it aint the cross that is bad , maybe your family aint as strong as you think.
Hummmmmm
When the Plott Breed was excepted into the Registry there were 42 registered Plotts in the first registry, ALL belonging to a select group of men surrounding the Plott family members. Would you like to go back and show me how they were not kin? There are countless strains and lines of Plotts across the Country nowadays but your theory would not hold up if you traced these dogs back "far enough." They were all kin, for sure. You show me and the rest of us u are the expert. |
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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If u believe everything u read in a book u are sadly decived. It don't make a chit who wrote it just because they wrote it and even may say it don't make it true. If u didn't see it you are getting second hand info and on down the line. Lmao I use to believe a lotta chit I read and was told also by what is known as great men and even tried to copy it. Wasted about ten years till I finally figured out the truth by hands on experince.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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oconee
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Also if you go far enuff bad in any dogs ped you will see a lot of dogs that where bred that where not any kin at all. That is how they all started out to begin with . As year have went on in my OPINION people have become obessesed with all this inbreeding, linebreeding and a ton have no ideal what they are doing. I would also venture to say I bet just as many family's of dogs have been hurt are ruined by this . If a mans family of dogs are so great then its his job to find the right click to go with it and know what to do when he does. Did you ever think if mutipal crosses don't work with your line maybe you get average dogs at best then maybe it aint the cross that is bad , maybe your family aint as strong as you think.
Hummmmmm
When the Plott Breed was excepted into the Registry there were 42 registered Plotts in the first registry, ALL belonging to a select group of men surrounding the Plott family members. Would you like to go back and show me how they were not kin? There are countless strains and lines of Plotts across the Country nowadays but your theory would not hold up if you traced these dogs back "far enough." They were all kin, for sure. You show me and the rest of us u are the expert. We'll i'm no expert but I really don't have to show anyone. It's obvious there are more dogs now than in the beginning so it's obtuse to say the father you trace dogs back they will prove to be unrelated the further back you go. So I guess if we traced mankind back to Adam and Eve you you would argue the same about mankind. The fact that the original Plotts breed registry was so small is all the proof I need and in fact there wereally only 42 to begin with but actually less than that were actually used in the breed moving forward. I'm not being a smarta-z, i'm just being "right." So being a smarta-z back is only making you look sillier! Take care |
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TexasHogDogs
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Adam & Eve......I guess am kin to them . I wonder I guess he would be my 10 Trillion'ent Grand Paw. I wonder if we look alike are how much of his gene pool I threw in my kids. Come on man. An done. To each his own. Good luck.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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JessseJames
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Oconee, I don't raise hog dogs but I do raise plenty of other creatures. Genetics have always intrigued me and I love to study the subject and ask questions and listen to anyone..... This is a great topic and I believe that you have contributed some helpful information but man if you self proclaim to be no expert quite acting like you are. There are thousands of species that have been bred many ways to come up with their respective breeds. Composites, line bred, in breed, best to to best, worst to worst and so on. If we as breeders want to truly breed better animals we need to hold some of our pride back when talking to others about their method of breeding lest we become blinded by what's in our own yard/pasture. If we take our time to analyze each of the different formulas for breeding animals and follow the method that makes sense to us then add to or detract from it from other formulas we may just be able to have a hand in producing some fine animals, but with this whole your way or the highway attitude some guys will quit posting their information and experience because they don't wanna throw pearls before swine
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oconee
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Also if you go far enuff bad in any dogs ped you will see a lot of dogs that where bred that where not any kin at all.
This is your statement, not mine. All I'm saying is its simply not true and have brought up a couple points supporting my stance. This is how a debate works. If you can't take ithe then don't make outlandish comments you can't support.
It's all the same gene pool and when you go back far enough (such as you suggested) you will have fewer members making up the species (dogs, humans, cats, or any animal) closers kin. This is exactly the opposite of what you say. In short, YOU ARE WRONG!!!
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oconee
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Oconee, I don't raise hog dogs but I do raise plenty of other creatures. Genetics have always intrigued me and I love to study the subject and ask questions and listen to anyone..... This is a great topic and I believe that you have contributed some helpful information but man if you self proclaim to be no expert quite acting like you are. There are thousands of species that have been bred many ways to come up with their respective breeds. Composites, line bred, in breed, best to to best, worst to worst and so on. If we as breeders want to truly breed better animals we need to hold some of our pride back when talking to others about their method of breeding lest we become blinded by what's in our own yard/pasture. If we take our time to analyze each of the different formulas for breeding animals and follow the method that makes sense to us then add to or detract from it from other formulas we may just be able to have a hand in producing some fine animals, but with this whole your way or the highway attitude some guys will quit posting their information and experience because they don't wanna throw pearls before swine
Jessie James on my place it is "my way or the highway." And as far as the "pearls in front of swine" comment goes, if my opinion makes someone reluctant to post then that my friend is a mental toughness issue, which is what is wrong with this society today. Maybe anyone who feels turned away because of print on a message board should go to their "safeplace." |
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TexasHogDogs
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I would like to see the list of great dogs you have bred. You youself. I would also like to see this to back up your talk. I can produce mine with history to back it up. I can provide proof of mine beyond a shadow of a doubt if need be. Show us some proof to back yourself and your theory up. Show some dogs your breeding produced threw out history.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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oconee
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He's the best I can do for you. Come to my house, at your convenience and stroll thru my yard and pick you out a dog and we'll go hunting. Then you can tell how the hunt went on this site. Now if you don't show, you are a COWARD!
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