Opening on track genetic?

[Mr. Oinker]

Is being open on track a genetic trait? Especially in hounds, I see people selling pups out of two silent hound parents. Should the pups turn out silent or is it not genetic at all and more a personality or learned behavior? For example if you get a hound pup but raise/run it with nothing but silent dogs is there a good chance of it turning out silent?

[Cajun]

  These are just my opinions & do not mean much but I have had silent curs & Plotts for a long time. I believe it is a 100% genetic if a dog opens or is silent. I have run silent curs with my plotts for years & it has never made them open. There are some lines of hounds that might be silent but that is the exception to the rule. It is a trait that can be bred for. Now I do think open mouth dogs do seem to be a more dominant trait then silent, for instant when you breed a open mouth dog to a silent dog, it seems like they are more open then silent. I have seen 2 plotts(one I owned & 1 a friend owned) that came out of open mouth parents & for some reason these dogs ran silent. You would only hear them when bayed.

[Mr. Oinker]

  These are just my opinions & do not mean much but I have had silent curs & Plotts for a long time. I believe it is a 100% genetic if a dog opens or is silent. I have run silent curs with my plotts for years & it has never made them open. There are some lines of hounds that might be silent but that is the exception to the rule. It is a trait that can be bred for. Now I do think open mouth dogs do seem to be a more dominant trait then silent, for instant when you breed a open mouth dog to a silent dog, it seems like they are more open then silent. I have seen 2 plotts(one I owned & 1 a friend owned) that came out of open mouth parents & for some reason these dogs ran silent. You would only hear them when bayed.

Thanks for the information. I was checking into a line of blue ticks in my area that the last 2 generations of parents/grandparents had been silent so I was wondering if more than likely the pups would be or not. A friend of mine owned a GSP with a little bit of hound blood. Coolest dog I've hunted behind. He was silent until staring at one, bayed semi tight but was smart enough to know when to back off, but he had a hound dog bawl. It made it so easy to tell when he was on one and helped when the tracking collar messed up. I wish I could have gotten a pup out of him before he died.

[Reuben]

I agree with Cajun...it is genetic

However, I have 4 pups out of a Pocahontas Plott gyp and the sire is an open 1/2 mt cur 1/4 redbone  1/4 pitbull dog...these 4 pups should be open on track but they have been running silent...the only thing I can figure is that the bark collars they have been wearing at the kennel has caused that so it is possible a dog can be trained to run silent...in the woods they will not have a bark collar but they will be wearing a quick trac and a Garmin collar...

I am thinking they would default back to open if I leave the bark collars off for a long while...

[Mr. Oinker]

I agree with Cajun...it is genetic

However, I have 4 pups out of a Pocahontas Plott gyp and the sire is an open 1/2 mt cur 1/4 redbone  1/4 pitbull dog...these 4 pups should be open on track but they have been running silent...the only thing I can figure is that the bark collars they have been wearing at the kennel has caused that so it is possible a dog can be trained to run silent...in the woods they will not have a bark collar but they will be wearing a quick trac and a Garmin collar...

I am thinking they would default back to open if I leave the bark collars off for a long while...

I have wondered about the long term effects of bark collars. Have you noticed any reluctance to bay in the woods or does that hunting instinct overtake the learned behavior of not barking for the dogs?

[Goose87]

I believe it has a lot to do with the dogs they are started with as well, I've seen this more than one occasion, to give an example I have a full blood running walker gyp, when I first started her on hogs the two gyps I started her with are silent, she was running and not saying a word for a while, I hunted her one day with my buddy's plotts and Mother Nature took over and she has been open ever since, not that it's a bad thing or anything, I didn't get her anticipating a silent mouth dog either.

[Reuben]

I agree with Cajun...it is genetic

However, I have 4 pups out of a Pocahontas Plott gyp and the sire is an open 1/2 mt cur 1/4 redbone  1/4 pitbull dog...these 4 pups should be open on track but they have been running silent...the only thing I can figure is that the bark collars they have been wearing at the kennel has caused that so it is possible a dog can be trained to run silent...in the woods they will not have a bark collar but they will be wearing a quick trac and a Garmin collar...

I am thinking they would default back to open if I leave the bark collars off for a long while...

I have wondered about the long term effects of bark collars. Have you noticed any reluctance to bay in the woods or does that hunting instinct overtake the learned behavior of not barking for the dogs?

I think that if I were to always keep the collars on the pups here at home they would remain mostly silent in the woods because it would be habit or a learned behavior making them to be silent...but if I used them sparingly whatever the genetics are in each one would make them open or silent...

I pay close attention to the small details that can be causing bigger issues...right now I have been looking at what has been going on with my pups and bark collars...

When I ordered the collars I did some research and these are supposed to be some good ones....they have 3 options on how to use them...
one way is that the collar can be preset at a certain level...

another way is to set it where it will start at a low level and slowly increase until the dog stops barking and then will reset to the low level and will repeat the procedure when the dog barks again...

I set it at the third option which is to increase intensity until the dog stops barking and it stays at the level...

the collars are to never go off unless the dog is barking according to the manufacturer...after about a month of them wearing them I noticed that if a dog that does not have a collar barks...that it triggers the collar on the dog wearing it...also, when I was cleaning out the kennels the train went by about 75 yards away and blew the horn and one of the dogs yelped...this tells me that what the instructions say about only correcting when the dog barks is not true...

This makes me believe that when the dogs bay up the pup might not get close to the bay even though not wearing a collar...so I have taken the collars off...I cannot say this was the problem for sure...maybe the pup could not keep up...or maybe he hung back because it is a problem...so I will take the pups and put them on a staged hog and let them bay just to make sure they understand baying in the woods is a fun thing...

[Mike]

I believe it's a genetic trait also. I've ran a mixed pack and hunt with a mixed pack quite a bit... even starting young dogs. The silent ones stay silent and the open ones are open.

[Mr. Oinker]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm glad there's people like y'all to get first hand experience from. This forum is a life saver!

[parker49]

its genetic but it can be manipulated ..... years ago I coon hunted a lot ...I had a silent cur gyp I trained all my young walker hounds with and they would stay perty quiet ..... and didn't seem to be near as open as pups trained with open dogs ......also if  you pack hunt they'll open more if they get on it hot an push each other ....

[The Old Man]

I have open dogs and constantly have bark collars on them, then when I take them hunting the same collars are on them but switched over to shock with the transmitter only and it has not quieted my dogs in the woods at all. Also have BMC's that have bark collars used on them at home and switched over when working the dogs they do not hesitate to bay. If they have much want to, they will bark and discover it is okay to bark at game or stock whichever the case may be. If they have any smarts they will also learn they can bark immediately when you remove the collar unless you use the transmitter fairly often.

[Curcross1987]

I agree with Cajun...it is genetic

However, I have 4 pups out of a Pocahontas Plott gyp and the sire is an open 1/2 mt cur 1/4 redbone  1/4 pitbull dog...these 4 pups should be open on track but they have been running silent...the only thing I can figure is that the bark collars they have been wearing at the kennel has caused that so it is possible a dog can be trained to run silent...in the woods they will not have a bark collar but they will be wearing a quick trac and a Garmin collar...

I am thinking they would default back to open if I leave the bark collars off for a long while...

Reuben how are the pups doing I will add that the plot gyp generally opens 4 or 5 times then falls silent till bayed

[Shotgun wg]

I have several hound cross dogs. They were open on track for a long time. They are now more silent than open. This could simply be learned. Usually they will locate bark once or twice then silence. I like this because it does draw the other dogs to the track. With that said if a man wants a silent dog your chances fair better with a cur than a hound. Excitement gets them hounds telling the world about it.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[Mr. Oinker]

I have several hound cross dogs. They were open on track for a long time. They are now more silent than open. This could simply be learned. Usually they will locate bark once or twice then silence. I like this because it does draw the other dogs to the track. With that said if a man wants a silent dog your chances fair better with a cur than a hound. Excitement gets them hounds telling the world about it.


Shotgun
Arkansas

Oh I feel ya on the excitement thing. I hunted a blue tick gyp for a couple months before realizing she had just too much mouth for me especially because I didn't have a gps at the time. She would open the second she caught even the slightest wind of them and then the pigs would take off running like some track stars. She couldn't seem to keep the pigs stopped at all. This had me running like an idiot through the woods every different direction chasing her bays that only lasted 30 seconds or so, and I never even got close to finding her until the pigs were gone for good. I loved her nose, as she would wind pigs that the curs never knew were there, but I wasn't sure how to build a pack around her so I sold her to a guy that had more of the running catch/ extremely rough help dogs. Still regret it to this day cause she was only about 2 and still green. I just didn't wanna be the one to ruin a good dog.

[cooke]

Hi Guys, I have really enjoyed reading this topic so far.

I think opening on trail comes in 2 forms;
1. frustration on keeping up on high prey driven slower dogs like some pitts and bullys.
2. excitement on scent like the hounds you guys speak of and some pointers I have owned.

I believe it is both a learnt and generic trait but in saying that its easier to teach em to be open than have a open dog shut its mouth.

I like my dog silent and I would never get a pup from a known open dog or gyp.

[Reuben]

I agree with Cajun...it is genetic

However, I have 4 pups out of a Pocahontas Plott gyp and the sire is an open 1/2 mt cur 1/4 redbone  1/4 pitbull dog...these 4 pups should be open on track but they have been running silent...the only thing I can figure is that the bark collars they have been wearing at the kennel has caused that so it is possible a dog can be trained to run silent...in the woods they will not have a bark collar but they will be wearing a quick trac and a Garmin collar...

I am thinking they would default back to open if I leave the bark collars off for a long while...

I can only say for sure one is going to be a good one that more than likely will be the next dog to get pups from...the others are doing pretty good but I have not taken them out as often as I should...I do not hunt them enough at this time to give an accurate evaluation...but I will say that I like all 4...

Reuben how are the pups doing I will add that the plot gyp generally opens 4 or 5 times then falls silent till bayed

[Double K Kennels]

In my experience with coondogs I would say it's 100% genetic. If I breed an old loose mouth male to my loose mouth female I'm gonna get some loose mouth dogs. Unless a few dogs back I had a tight mouth dog and get a throw back. Or the other way around. Which is always possible. I have also kept a bark collar on a dog all the time in a pen but as soon as he thinks he smells a coon he is opening. Anything can be bred out of a dog over generations of selective breeding. That goes for the good as well as the bad. When selecting a dog based on a trait like how tight a dogs mouth is, always look atleast at the last 3 generations. Better your odds.