The Science of Stop

[l.h.cracker]

There's dog's here that have been bred to do this for hundreds of years it's nothing new you're not doing anything that hasn't been done before I like to see the pictures of the hog's you Catch And your dog's Dean but you're coming off as arrogant and rude to other's because they run different dog's than you.Mocking men who have been breeding dogs for 30yrs because they haven't switched to a new style in your eye's that's really nothing New at all.Hyan many FL dog's will put teeth in hog get it stopped bay by themselves and hang it when you show up warrant has owned true one out dogs  I own a couple true one out dogs and many many others do as well.When someone said that there's many kinds of dogs that do the same thing as in find and catch hog's you shut them down and mocked them throwing your dogs down there throat and discredited any breeds but your own.You have told me in text that you can't believe that cur dogs down here do exactly what you're dogs do but they do and have been doing It for hundreds of years CUR DOGS!!!people have different preferences on how they want to hunt and their dog's to perform I have rough curs that have been bred to do this and also like to hunt longer ranging bay type dogs and have even been getting into some casting type dogs. I have respect for all aspects of hog dogging and the men who are dedicated to breeding better dogs and the future of the sport. I hate to say it but the last couple of days Dean you've been sounding a lot like Oconee and have came off quite offensive.

[cscott]

Where did you get your your gyp from you just breed

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[l.h.cracker]

Gary Cambell in Ga.

[l.h.cracker]

If that question was for me cavity lol.

[l.h.cracker]

F..ing autocorrect Cscott not cavity.

[Curcross1987]

All you know nothing I've been doing this a few years you are doing it wrong because you don't do it like me I have the best of the best lol

[T-Bob Parker]

How does a dog stop a pig running without putting teeth on it?

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By getting in front and working on the head end. Not all dogs can do it of course, but this is how stock bred curs work.

[hyan]

hyan for what streak hunts and how he likes to hunt his  dogs is  just the ticket  for  HIM ......I ain't seen nobody tell him he needs to change what he  does ....... and  I know his dogs ant work here unless behind  one of our  woods dogs ....  now  far  as  Hawaii never been there and I'm just to fat to climb mountains or big hills .......fella use to call me wanting me to send him dogs ....but man its a pain to send a dog there  or was  then ....... now I don't know but he told me most of the dogs there was shat bred ...he said they just didn't have the hunt the dogs from the  main land  does ..... he said the country is so ruff  you would loose dogs like  we  hunt because they would track pigs so far ....but he said he wanted to cross some with what they had  to give  theres  more  hunt .....now I don't know that's what the man said  you know  more  than me ......

Alot of guys have crap dogs that they get for free or get from the pound because they want to hunt we actually breed our dogs to get what we want out of them and I wasn't talking about dean's dogs I was talking about mines they are built like dean's but I use them in mountains and yea you can't have dogs that go miles cus u have to walk to them where they hook up with a pig my dogs would roll out to 500 yards then loop back over and over we would walk somtime up to 10 miles if we hunt the pastures at the ranch we let them see the pigs then they run um most guys down in hawaii don't think about breeding just hunting n that's why there dogs just work but don't get better every time they hunt all I am trying to point out is long big legged dogs can work n if they can work in hawaii I am sure they can work here I am not saying that curs don't work cus I have bin hunting behind curs n some bad ass ones at that so I am not going to knock it I just wanted to point that out I hope no one thinks I am being disrespectful or an ass

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[joshg223]

I enjoy the bay dogs doing their job the most. Really doesn't matter how fast my little short legged Bulldogs are  and in my 15 years of hunting behind a bunch of different Bulldogs the best I ever hunted behind trotted to the bay and snuck up on the hog like an Indian and hit at the right time.


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[parker49]

hell I give  up ... I went down to the dump and got a truck load of whippets and greyhounds ....old man there said  takes care of the place said thats what  they are  ... I said are  you sure he said  yeah son thats whippets and old rin tin tin there is a greyhound ...I said  ok so I started load'n up ...he said  hey don't forget that miniature  whippet he's just a puppy his teeth  is short  he chews  on a lot of bones I said  ok ......I told him what I wanted them for and asked if he thought they'd work ....he said  son see how far  it  is  to that back fence  I said  yes sir  he said  ain't a wood rat ever made it out .....   I'm just picking fella's  .....its all good ....

[hyan]

hell I give  up ... I went down to the dump and got a truck load of whippets and greyhounds ....old man there said  takes care of the place said thats what  they are  ... I said are  you sure he said  yeah son thats whippets and old rin tin tin there is a greyhound ...I said  ok so I started load'n up ...he said  hey don't forget that miniature  whippet he's just a puppy his teeth  is short  he chews  on a lot of bones I said  ok ......I told him what I wanted them for and asked if he thought they'd work ....he said  son see how far  it  is  to that back fence  I said  yes sir  he said  ain't a wood rat ever made it out .....   I'm just picking fella's  .....its all good ....

See told you if that can catch a rat then they can catch a pig  :

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[warrent423]

How does a dog stop a pig running without putting teeth on it?

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By getting in front and working on the head end. Not all dogs can do it of course, but this is how stock bred curs work.

   As for controlling catch Hyan, it involves having a handle on a dog. Handle that is achieved by working with a dog day in and day out. I won't own suicidal dogs. They must have some sense and catch smart to make my cut.  A shock collar can be a useful tool in this process, but for the most part it goes back to the type of Bulldog we put in our dogs. That alone eliminated a lot of headache from the get go. Proud to say that we started with cur dogs over 120 years ago and will end our existence with them 

[Black Streak]

There's dog's here that have been bred to do this for hundreds of years it's nothing new you're not doing anything that hasn't been done before I like to see the pictures of the hog's you Catch And your dog's Dean but you're coming off as arrogant and rude to other's because they run different dog's than you.Mocking men who have been breeding dogs for 30yrs because they haven't switched to a new style in your eye's that's really nothing New at all.Hyan many FL dog's will put teeth in hog get it stopped bay by themselves and hang it when you show up warrant has owned true one out dogs  I own a couple true one out dogs and many many others do as well.When someone said that there's many kinds of dogs that do the same thing as in find and catch hog's you shut them down and mocked them throwing your dogs down there throat and discredited any breeds but your own.You have told me in text that you can't believe that cur dogs down here do exactly what you're dogs do but they do and have been doing It for hundreds of years CUR DOGS!!!people have different preferences on how they want to hunt and their dog's to perform I have rough curs that have been bred to do this and also like to hunt longer ranging bay type dogs and have even been getting into some casting type dogs. I have respect for all aspects of hog dogging and the men who are dedicated to breeding better dogs and the future of the sport. I hate to say it but the last couple of days Dean you've been sounding a lot like Oconee and have came off quite offensive.

I'm not suggesting people change styles or dogs.     I'm simply trying to illustrate to people that if stopping and catching runners in the brush is so much harder than the open which everyone on here has agreed upon once somewhere on this forum, then why is it there not stopping and catching pigs in the open when they find them.    I typical target pigs in the open and that's where most of my pigs are caught as a result.       That's where catching is the easiest for dogs right???     If so, good this is my premise to my point.    Why do I need to come put my dogs in the brush when the point I'm trying to make is if others dogs can't do it in the open, then what's really going on in the brush to allow such success in catching pigs in the brush.  Nobody has even attempted to answere this that I've read.  It's the point to the hole thread.                  This having better dogs than thow that so many are reading into and getting offended by it not me saying it, it's them reading into it and going off the rails with it.        
      Everytime I've ever feilded a question on here about rcd's, a dang 4 page back and forth argument breaks out mostly by people that don't even run rcd's or haven't been able to do it successfully.  Which I pointed out breed matters, things matter.    Every reason I've ever heard given on here was to me either self induced or inappropriate breeding to get what they were trying to accomplish.       A good rcd is the most miss understood dog ever discussed on here and it's talked about fairly often.     For someone to come along and get the truth out about such dogs and combat the myths and missunderstandings and give explanations and break stuff down the way I have is about time and been long over do.     I knew I would be in the hot seat but I was big enough to do it.        I'm using the most easy example to understand, hunting in the open to illustrate my points.    Sometime the descussion gets pulled one way or another but still I've maintained what I believe to be a steady direction to this thread.    If people take things out of context and turn this into a my dog vs your dog or style thread then why is that my fault.  Could I have illustrated my points better? Probably but if you have seen where I could help people understand my points, then why haven't you helped?
     As for the guy with the 25 yrs experience in breeding dogs that's now turned into 30, he didn't have to says what he did.  He has 25 years worth of breeding the same type of dog he started with and has now that do the same thing.   And his big accomplishment he speaks of is they all look alike.  Ummm, that isn't what this thread is about.  It's about dogs stopping pigs, not best in show.        He said grit don't stop pigs and give the slowest cd used as an example that not surprisingly couldn't catch a pig in 3/4 of a mile.    Ummm does he take me for stupid?  I treated him the way he spoke of his experiences and examples.  Which by the way he turned around and tried to lend credibility to himself by posting a picture of a dog he said sucked pigs up in the open.   So which is it according to him,  more grit and speed catches pigs one the dogs terms or not?  He made both points in the same thread.     I said a few more things than that but so did he.    You feel that I'm supposed to lay down and let this person keep spreading crud about dogs which he don't breed or use and that tells me I'm wrong.  No, negative, I have a backbone and knew what I was up against and prepared to stand and dispelling all the propaganda and myths about rcd type dogs.   Don't take an rcd to stop a pig in the open but this post is long enough without having to re-examine every detail.      
      I'm not doing this people like you Casey nor am I doing this for people like Parker.       I'm doing this for the people who are interested in getting on the right track with rcds and not taking the long way around, not wasting their time with stuff the realize later etc.       I have people contact me on a regular basis that want to pick my brain about various rcd's but they won't dare speak up on here.  Why is that Casey?   It's because of the bias, the crud that gets started as a result of talking about such dogs by people touting their experience which often times has very little if any to do with rcd's.          Just like the guy in the last thread that asked about rough  or rougher for small places.  How many bs answers did he get that truely addressed his problem.        Several, and one of the bs answers come from Parker who said call the dogs back.  We'll if you had dogs like his, which the guy evidently did, you would need to call the dogs back in order for the not to get on the neighbors  before catching a pig.   The guy asked about catching pigs BEFORE they pigs could get onto the neighbors property and what kinda dog to use.   Not what kinda instrument to call dogs back because the dogs he was using couldn't do the kinda job he was wanting out of a dog.              No my respect is not to the one that gives the bs answer and fails to answer the question.  My respect is for the person asking the question.  When try to answer a question, I deal with the question asked.   If I don't have an answer that works for the parameters given, I don't answer, very a simple.      If your seeing red right now, I'm sorry but that's just how it is with me.  
   You don't see me given advice on guys asking questions about hounds.  You don't see me tell in no someone a dog that runs a track hard and fast is more successful and better than a dog that swings one.    You don't see me contradicting what the good houndsmen of the forum say about there dogs or hunt style.  I know enough to answer a question or two but why would I?   I'm not a hound man, I don't hunt them, etc.       I have more respect for the good houndsmen of the forum than to take a question better answered by them.         I could speculate on things but provide answers the way my minds eye sees them and what little info I know but there are aging much more qualified guys to answer hound questions.        To me, if you can't examine things in a holistic manner your not gonna analyze things correctly.  If you can't do either of these for one reason or another than you really are limited to what you can truthfully speak about and feild.
     Pigs are part of the equation too.   You can't disregard them.  If you don't know pigs you can't really examine things from a holistic standpoint.     This thread included the mentality of pigs.  It's the question I have been setting up for people to hit on and look at.  It's the big reason why dogs that can't stop a pig in the open can so successfully  do it in the brush.           I've been trying to make this about  pig mentality from the beginning and using open country  and dogs the common dog not being able to stop a pig in the open but soooo often and successfully getting it done in the brush where it should be harder to do.        Maybe I was setting the question up wrong for most,  but I at least expected someone to pick it up.  Instead it was read into as my dogs are better than your dogs thread which in no post did I purposefully portray this

[Curcross1987]

The only open places we have is roads and the occasional shooting lanes so we never find them in the open unless they run across a road

[jsh]

Hyan when I was to referring to brush and my dogs, I am mostly talking about briars. They are horrible up here in places where the ranchers don't control the growth. Dogs will come out with bloody faces just from running through them. Part of the reason I don't like hunting this type of dog in them is that they may get through it in 2 minutes but it'll take my big butt 10 minutes and I personally don't care to have my dogs caught that long.

Hawaii looks beautiful and appears you'd have to be in better shape than your dogs to be successful there.

[l.h.cracker]

Pigs stopping in brush to fight is what you're getting at I know that but if you don't have a high population of hogs and only hunt thick stuff and you don't have dog's that trail or hunt their asses off then you'll have no success my question  was how do they hunt in comparison to a good Cur or cross whatever have you ,a good strike dog?If you can't find the hog's then a race is never started there for speed stopping power and everything thing else is obsolete.I have hunted highly populated areas where we hunted fields and roads surrounded by alligator pits/marsh and the thickest nastiest brush on the planet with success with curs catching In the open. I also know that if a dog is handed hog's in the open its whole life it would have a hard time with hunting thick such as palmettos,briars,switch Grass tunnels,stick marsh and all the nasty stuff I hunt Ihave seen it time and time again bring dogs that hunt crops such as orange Groves, tomatoes, etc and they don't even want leave the trails or roads because the brush is to thick.if a dogs been bred  for many generations to hunt open land primarily by sight or winding hog's at a close distance than how can you expect it to out perform a trail dog that has been bred for its hunt and finding ability in the thick? Nothing to do with loose or rough because It can't be stopped if it is not found.I have asked this question before and never really got an answer Other than Jsh.

[Judge peel]

I say in my opinion nothing beats a good cur that has a touch of every thing and a good handle makes for some good times in the woods. I know every one like there way the best cuz it's there way. A good dog regardless it's style will stop the hog but first it has to be found.


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[Black Streak]

The only open places we have is roads and the occasional shooting lanes so we never find them in the open unless they run across a road

Would be hard for you to see first hand what point I've been making but haven't had anyone grasp a hold of yet.   But I know you have read the stories on here where dogs have struck pigs in the open and couldn't get them shut down till they got to the brush.     It is why this happens with such overwhelming frequency  (starting a pig in the open and not being able to get it stopped till it gets to the brush) was the root point I was trying to discuss and talk about.           To really get good legit discussion about why this is and to get people on the right track in how to discuss this, it needs to be done from a holistic standpoint in order to identify that it's the pigs that enable this to happen the way it does, not so much the dogs.  If it was the dogs, it would be done in the open when the dogs had the upper hand.                 

[Black Streak]

Pigs stopping in brush to fight is what you're getting at I know that but if you don't have a high population of hogs and only hunt thick stuff and you don't have dog's that trail or hunt their asses off then you'll have no success my question  was how do they hunt in comparison to a good Cur or cross whatever have you ,a good strike dog?If you can't find the hog's then a race is never started there for speed stopping power and everything thing else is obsolete.I have hunted highly populated areas where we hunted fields and roads surrounded by alligator pits/marsh and the thickest nastiest brush on the planet with success with curs catching In the open. I also know that if a dog is handed hog's in the open its whole life it would have a hard time with hunting thick such as palmettos,briars,switch Grass tunnels,stick marsh and all the nasty stuff I hunt Ihave seen it time and time again bring dogs that hunt crops such as orange Groves, tomatoes, etc and they don't even want leave the trails or roads because the brush is to thick.if a dogs been bred  for many generations to hunt open land primarily by sight or winding hog's at a close distance than how can you expect it to out perform a trail dog that has been bred for its hunt and finding ability in the thick? Nothing to do with loose or rough because It can't be stopped if it is not found.I have asked this question before and never really got an answer Other than Jsh.

All great points but just not for what I've been trying to navigate the thread toward.    If a dog can't find your right, nothing would be relevant.   Very very true about spoilt dogs hunting open all there life and having hard time getting up to speed in the briars.  I think this is overlooked an awful lot.  How can you judge a type or style of dog fairly when you only seen one persons dog.      Josh and I run some of the same dogs, same litter etc.    His dogs would make mine look like a joke in the delta that he often hunts in until my dogs got used to it like his.    Same dogs, same litter, if you seen my dogs first time they were taken to such an area to hunt you would have a different opinion of them than if you seen his hunting same thing.     This is one way such myths about different kinda dogs are born and spread.

[Black Streak]

I say in my opinion nothing beats a good cur that has a touch of every thing and a good handle makes for some good times in the woods. I know every one like there way the best cuz it's there way. A good dog regardless it's style will stop the hog but first it has to be found.


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Say I'm having trouble catching pigs on my not so big place before the pigs get onto the neighbors.  Neighbors are totally against pig dogs bring on there place. What kinda dogs do I need in order to catch pigs in my place and not the neighbors?
    
Does this guy  need a yard full of dogs?
Did this guy ask how to call dogs off of pigs before they got to the neighbors place or catch them before hand.     (These are not questions  I asking to be answered just rather really pointing out)   t