Large catch dog 55+ lbs VS small catch dog 50 and below

[Rose Prairie kennels]

What is best in your opinion? Small or large. I like large because I feel like they won’t be as much of a “erring” for a big hog.

[tmatt]

A true APBT of any size gets my vote over any other breed of any size... 50 - 60 pounds is a good size. The smaller ones can get it done, it just takes a little longer

[Fixitlouie]

Smaller if he can anchor it down will Always  be better.  So  many benefits to a smaller solid catch dog


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[Judge peel]

The benefits of a medium to smaller size are many more the those 90 lb monsters. Some bigger ones might have some wind to them but not like a conditioned 50 lb pit. They move thru the thick stuff better and easier to handle on a lead. Easily loaded up or tossed over a fence. A hard mouth is a hard mouth regardless the size.


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[WayOutWest]

My background is performance aunt's,  but I have switched to line bred catching aunt's that run from 60 to 90#. My male is 75 and he goes thru the woods with no issues because he is picking his way and not just busting brush. We almost always use 2 catch dogs but sometimes only have one and I want it anchored. To each there own but I want a defensive end not a safety holding a big hog.

[Sambo5500]

I know it's not really answering the question but I think both have their place. My favorite dog ever was a 55# pit/cur cross that was everything you could ask for in a catch dog. Get into small spaces, easy to load, easy handle, caught hard etc etc. I am currently getting more and more into the finder holders. The speed and power of these dogs is unmatched. For the type of hunting I currently do they are better for me now. Large agricultural areas and smaller properties. They have all the stamina you could ask for, jump fences, catch hard and get through the woods like a deer. Contrary to popular belief on this site they can fly through the woods. These aren't big lumbering dogs. They are purpose bred for years for this job.

[Cajun]

We hunt the marsh a  lot & usually use one dog. We like a bigger dog that can hold a hog . That is our preference. What Judge says is true; A hard mouth is a hard mouth regardless the size.  I used to have a lil 45# gyp and caught a lot of big boars with her but they could walk on her & you had to pick the time to run in and grab the hog but she had the bite.

[Judge peel]

One thing I noticed bout big catch dogs are they carry so much muscle they tend to get hot easy. I don’t dis like a big catch dog I just prefer the smaller ones


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[WayOutWest]

It all depends on how your big catch dogs are built, if you have those barrel chested heavily muscled dogs then yes, overheating can be an issue but the type of big dogs that Tdog is using are taller rangier dogs. They look just like a bigger game bred dog. Plus most of them just sit down and wait while you tie the hog. They recover a heck of a lot faster that way than the over exited dogs of any size.

[Judge peel]

They best look like this tied to a tree while I am dealing with the hog or they might not make it. If they cry in the box or pull on a lead they won’t be around here long


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[Black Streak]

For me, I much prefer a dog y'all would consider very large.    29 to 30 inches tall, fairly long and around 100  to 110 pounds.        The height and structure mean more to me than the weight, just using weight to help give visual to the size dogs I use.   
    Why I like such a dog can easily be seen on my Facebook videos.   When comparing the videos of Macey  the pit corso bitch to my wolfhound based dogs you will notice in the video's of the dogs holding the big boars, the wolfhounds center of gravity is more over there front shoulders when controlling a boar.  This allows for many benefits to the dogs.   You see how they hold and never get hit and make a big boar look like a joke.  Macey on the other  is a typical 60 pound pit looking dog.   She is fun to watch in the video's because the pigs are able to lift her up, throw her around, etc and notice do to her lack of size where her center of gravity is put when attached to the big boars.  You can plainly see the need for her vest because her structural difference prevents her from being able to pull a big boar around the way the other big dogs can.     They periodically get her In some rather awkward situations and off her feet and out of controle and sometimes even In the air as can be seen In some pics and videos lol.     
      In the water my big dogs can stand and hold big pigs in the water just fine but a shorter dog like Macey will constantly be struggling for controle because her feet wouldn't touch in the same places the bigger pigs can thus giving them the ability to hit the swimming dog and keep it off them and or inflict harm on them.   The pig rests and the dog is working out in that situation and the CD has little controle if any in this situation.        I believe in the last video I posted you can see one of the big dogs holding a pig in the water.   He had things well under controle, it was actually the pig that was using the energy to keep from sucking in a bunch of water.        In other videos you can see the big dogs walking with big pigs and others especially when a good pig is against a fence and trying to get through, you can see the same  dogs anchor a pig and not allow it to go forward where it wants to go.        You can see boars try to come at me and the big dogs turn around.    You can see pigs come at me when Macey has one one outed and I have to dodge the pigs.      If your on my Facebook, pay attention to the dog and particularly analyze them and how the two different style of dogs are capable or incapable of imposing their will.    After comparing the videos of each style of dog, can you really say the 60 plus pound Macey is an anchor?       In any of the numorous videos can you ever see one of the big wolfhound based dogs in a situation where the pig is controlling it like Macey finds herself in now and then?       
      I'm not a bay dog guy.  Those pigs are caught under different circumstances and since those pigs are so often allowed to run to the place of their choosing to defend themselves the average catch often happens in a different type environment than where my catchs are.    I think pits are more suited for lead in work than my preferred type dog.       My dogs are willing but their ability to move and avoid taken hits is stripped from them in stuff like briar thickets.  A good pit will usually take far more punishment and continue to hold than what a lot of my type dogs will.    For this reason I consider pits the kings of catch and the most appropriate style cd when used as lead ins by bay doggers

[Judge peel]

Your bring up some good points bubba. The main deference in a pit and your dog is one has only one use and purpose yours is multi purpose but the same end result.


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[Goose87]

For me, I much prefer a dog y'all would consider very large.    29 to 30 inches tall, fairly long and around 100  to 110 pounds.        The height and structure mean more to me than the weight, just using weight to help give visual to the size dogs I use.  
    Why I like such a dog can easily be seen on my Facebook videos.   When comparing the videos of Macey  the pit corso bitch to my wolfhound based dogs you will notice in the video's of the dogs holding the big boars, the wolfhounds center of gravity is more over there front shoulders when controlling a boar.  This allows for many benefits to the dogs.   You see how they hold and never get hit and make a big boar look like a joke.  Macey on the other  is a typical 60 pound pit looking dog.   She is fun to watch in the video's because the pigs are able to lift her up, throw her around, etc and notice do to her lack of size where her center of gravity is put when attached to the big boars.  You can plainly see the need for her vest because her structural difference prevents her from being able to pull a big boar around the way the other big dogs can.     They periodically get her In some rather awkward situations and off her feet and out of controle and sometimes even In the air as can be seen In some pics and videos lol.    
      In the water my big dogs can stand and hold big pigs in the water just fine but a shorter dog like Macey will constantly be struggling for controle because her feet wouldn't touch in the same places the bigger pigs can thus giving them the ability to hit the swimming dog and keep it off them and or inflict harm on them.   The pig rests and the dog is working out in that situation and the CD has little controle if any in this situation.        I believe in the last video I posted you can see one of the big dogs holding a pig in the water.   He had things well under controle, it was actually the pig that was using the energy to keep from sucking in a bunch of water.        In other videos you can see the big dogs walking with big pigs and others especially when a good pig is against a fence and trying to get through, you can see the same  dogs anchor a pig and not allow it to go forward where it wants to go.        You can see boars try to come at me and the big dogs turn around.    You can see pigs come at me when Macey has one one outed and I have to dodge the pigs.      If your on my Facebook, pay attention to the dog and particularly analyze them and how the two different style of dogs are capable or incapable of imposing their will.    After comparing the videos of each style of dog, can you really say the 60 plus pound Macey is an anchor?       In any of the numorous videos can you ever see one of the big wolfhound based dogs in a situation where the pig is controlling it like Macey finds herself in now and then?      
      I'm not a bay dog guy.  Those pigs are caught under different circumstances and since those pigs are so often allowed to run to the place of their choosing to defend themselves the average catch often happens in a different type environment than where my catchs are.    I think pits are more suited for lead in work than my preferred type dog.       My dogs are willing but their ability to move and avoid taken hits is stripped from them in stuff like briar thickets.  A good pit will usually take far more punishment and continue to hold than what a lot of my type dogs will.    For this reason I consider pits the kings of catch and the most appropriate style cd when used as lead ins by bay doggers

That's a great explanation of the differences in the two different styles of catch dogs Dean and something probably 95% of hog hunters, especially bay dog hunters, never take into consideration, and one of the reasons I've pondered the thought here lately about trying to cross a dog of your style onto one of our game bred pits, to add the height and frame without getting to bulky and sacrificing lung capacity, and maintaining overall athleticism,to add to the control factor, nothing more than an idea at the moment, what's your input, they'd be used as lead in CDs...

[Goose87]

My preference is the 50 and below catch dogs, honestly the main reason is more on the sentimental side because of my love and history with APBT, and next is because most of the terrain I hunt dictates what the most successful, most of what I hunt is really thick and a dog has to be athletic enough to maneuver through the saw briars and such and make it to the bay without being so wore out from having to Waller its way through the thick, and doesn't sound like a bull in a china shop either, I've owned and hunted several bigger dogs over the years and have had a few that were as nimble and quick getting through the thick as a smaller dog, but I don't run across those very often, aside from the hunting I look at the economic side of things as well and a smaller dog doesn't eat as much feed as bigger dogs and most of the time doesn't require the maintenance and upkeep that comes with the territory of owning bigger dogs, there's no right or wrong style, as long as it gets the job done and satisfies you that all that matters...

[Black Streak]

Goose I'm sure such a cross would produce good lead in catch dogs while maintaining the things you pointed out.      However, I think breeding my type dogs to a fairly small pit   would  throw pretty small offspring, would yeild a smaller dog than one might expect from my type dogs.     I would figure you would get 70ish pound 26 inch dogs.      They might be jam up but one would never know till they tried it.      If your interested in crossing to one, my type dogs would most likely yeild a much more consistent litter of hard and well built pups than a stag bred for coyotes.       
         I bred a really nice stag wolfhound cross dog I raised to a 3/4 pit 1/4 cane corso bitch I have.    Those pups are 10 months old and are awsome.   They are the real deal.   Probably will rival or beat anything I've had to date.      A breeding like your wanting thinking of would yeild similar results but in a smaller package being that the little pit would throw smaller offspring than the pit cane corso bitch I have.   
           Your welcome to send me a PM and I'll add you to my Facebook if your not already on there.        I keep my friends list pretty small and private and try to keep it exclusively about pig dogging.      My girlfriend keeps tagging me in stuff though and it's turning into a fufu page lol.         

[t-dog]

IN MY OPINION, for the way we hunt,  I like the bigger catch dogs. I have had some of everything and there were good  ones and bad ones in them all. I have caught my share of big hogs and bad hogs. In nearly thirty years of running my own dogs, I have only lost a few catch dogs. Only one of them was big. He got hung up by the vest on a tree out in the river and drowned before we could get across to him. I had one female that caught everything we aimed her at. She was about 40lbs. One boar cut her 25 times while she was caught and wearing a vest. We were only 40 yards away in the wide open and were right there to leg him. He started slinging her the second she eared him. That's how fast it happened. Another 45lb female was killed and not even cut. Big hog hit her one time and sent her sailing. Another Male about 50 lbs  caught a boar about 200lbs. The hog slung him around past his head as he hit and caught the dogs front leg and crushed it. The hog broke and was bayed 30 yards away. 3 legged  he hit him again and the boar hit between the vest and cut collar. By the time I stuck him the dog was gone too. Another Male about 50 lbs was caught and the hog cut and nearly ruined my  best find dog because the hog didn't even notice  the catch dog on his ear. These are examples of why I don't use smaller catch dogs. My bigger catch dogs have the wind, the brains,  the style, and the disposition to excel anywhere. I have watched them outrun 45lb athletes. I have solo caught hogs that were said to be "uncatchable". I don't have to lead them so there isn't an issue of them dragging me or getting tangled up. When  I'm ready for them to leave the hog alone, they do. There's no tree or leash chewing. No screaming or grabbing at anything that's moving or running past. They think on their feet. I'm not saying that mine are the greatest. I say all this to say that they are on the bigger end and they possess the traits and style that work for me. I  don't have hogs moving around with them. They can take the punishment dealt them. I can crawl in on my elbows and know its caught and not coming to me. I can catch as many as I can get bayed in a day. They get through the brush as good as my bay dogs. I like'em.

[Goose87]

He may not be much to look at to others but this one here is dang near ideal in my eyes far as looks and his catching ability and style, this is his first full year of being the main cd and we’ve caught some nice hogs with just him, he could have a little longer legs but other than that he’s one of the best I’ve had the pleasure of going in behind, the biggest problem I fault him on is that he doesn’t belong to me, but I’ll have some pups out of him any day now...


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[Judge peel]

Nice animal goose that is my ideal size and look


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[TheRednose]

My main background with dogs is with game bulldogs and I have owned dogs off of some of the greatest dogs of all time. With that being said I am with T-dog and Dean on this. They are talking about two different types of dogs but both on the larger side.

The holding styles I think Dean is talking about I compare it to humans this way. Picture a super tall guy like a big professional basketball player facing a short guy and reaching out with his long arm and gripping the top of the short guys head, while the short guy just flings his arms hitting nothing but air due to him not being able to reach him. This I believe is why Dean is more concerned with height and frame. VS a little buff guy holding that same short guy in a headlock, both can be effective but one takes way more energy and has the potential to take way more damage. You have to have a very tall dog for this type of holding style but it is greatly effective because they take little to no punishment and can hold this way for much longer periods. There are other similar styles to this as well that Dean is talking about too but this is the one that opened my eyes to what those types of dogs can do.

I noticed the same thing that judge said about bigger bulldogs overheating much easier, in fact I hunt with a couple that almost over heat themselves going to the bay lol. But if you can get the right genetics on a big dog then that is not a problem. Its just so much easier to find small ones with big gas tanks. Last week I watched a 75lb bulldog catch 4 hogs in about an hour an a half and not even get hot or even pant, where the little bulldog we brought as backup didn't even get sent in and he was panting because of how hot and humid it was. That is just genetics. Both live in the same environment but one just has superior genetics. These are the type of bulldogs T-dog has and is talking about. As for getting through thick stuff that imo comes down to two things, the amount of brains the dog has, and how often you hunt that type of environment. A smart big dog that is raised hunting in that kind of thick stuff will learn how to navigate it pretty easily.

[ModisettH]

Depends I don’t care the size although I prefer 80 lbs. As long as the dog has brains and wind then I’ll feed it. I can not stand for a dog of any size to not mind and one that takes 1 step and is out of breath.


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