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Judge peel
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I like a cd that can hang for a long time and have a lot of gas in the tank. Mine can run for miles with the bay dogs I don’t prefer that but they do it. I can call them back but it don’t always happen.
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Semmes
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T-dog, I’d sure like to know the breeding or lines of the catch weight bulldogs or family you are using. They sound pretty solid in all aspects for sure for bigger type bulldogs.
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make-em-squeel
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For me, I much prefer a dog y'all would consider very large. 29 to 30 inches tall, fairly long and around 100 to 110 pounds. The height and structure mean more to me than the weight, just using weight to help give visual to the size dogs I use.
Why I like such a dog can easily be seen on my Facebook videos. When comparing the videos of Macey the pit corso bitch to my wolfhound based dogs you will notice in the video's of the dogs holding the big boars, the wolfhounds center of gravity is more over there front shoulders when controlling a boar. This allows for many benefits to the dogs. You see how they hold and never get hit and make a big boar look like a joke. Macey on the other is a typical 60 pound pit looking dog. She is fun to watch in the video's because the pigs are able to lift her up, throw her around, etc and notice do to her lack of size where her center of gravity is put when attached to the big boars. You can plainly see the need for her vest because her structural difference prevents her from being able to pull a big boar around the way the other big dogs can. They periodically get her In some rather awkward situations and off her feet and out of controle and sometimes even In the air as can be seen In some pics and videos lol.
In the water my big dogs can stand and hold big pigs in the water just fine but a shorter dog like Macey will constantly be struggling for controle because her feet wouldn't touch in the same places the bigger pigs can thus giving them the ability to hit the swimming dog and keep it off them and or inflict harm on them. The pig rests and the dog is working out in that situation and the CD has little controle if any in this situation. I believe in the last video I posted you can see one of the big dogs holding a pig in the water. He had things well under controle, it was actually the pig that was using the energy to keep from sucking in a bunch of water. In other videos you can see the big dogs walking with big pigs and others especially when a good pig is against a fence and trying to get through, you can see the same dogs anchor a pig and not allow it to go forward where it wants to go. You can see boars try to come at me and the big dogs turn around. You can see pigs come at me when Macey has one one outed and I have to dodge the pigs. If your on my Facebook, pay attention to the dog and particularly analyze them and how the two different style of dogs are capable or incapable of imposing their will. After comparing the videos of each style of dog, can you really say the 60 plus pound Macey is an anchor? In any of the numorous videos can you ever see one of the big wolfhound based dogs in a situation where the pig is controlling it like Macey finds herself in now and then?
I'm not a bay dog guy. Those pigs are caught under different circumstances and since those pigs are so often allowed to run to the place of their choosing to defend themselves the average catch often happens in a different type environment than where my catchs are. I think pits are more suited for lead in work than my preferred type dog. My dogs are willing but their ability to move and avoid taken hits is stripped from them in stuff like briar thickets. A good pit will usually take far more punishment and continue to hold than what a lot of my type dogs will. For this reason I consider pits the kings of catch and the most appropriate style cd when used as lead ins by bay doggers
For me personally ive mixed the best of both worlds, with pit mixes/the right dogos/scott bred abs, ive been able to get a cleaner holding, longer legged, more athletic lead in cd that is similar to your wolfhound type holders but as hard as any pit in our "bad situations" bay dog hunters like me turn cds into. Athletic is key, big or small, endurance is # 1 bc if you cant breathe you cant fight, ( I would take a hard cd with good endurance despite any size, ive seen as many small dogs vs big dogs have trouble here, the build and muscle mass matters.) # 2 is keeping the legs on the ground and getting in the right spot that short pits have trouble doing on big hogs, they get their feet up in the air like a dish towel in the wind simply bc of where their mouth is vs the hogs ear and despite not letting go they can not anchor and control a hog like a wrestler as good as a dog with longer leg. I love all good cds and have caught many of pig with all kinds but hardness that will never let go in bad spots, endurance, clean holding, and dominating pigs like a wrestler are key imo for the best all around cd. |
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make-em-squeel
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and fyi real pits are 40 lbs what most hunters call real pits are mixed with something or they wouldnt be 60 lbs
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make-em-squeel
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and fyi real pits are 40 lbs what most hunters call real pits are mixed with something or they wouldnt be 60 lbs
that said bc my long legged athletic dogo has been snake bit ive caught 2 big boars in two weeks with a short leg 45 lb pit lol |
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Judge peel
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A lot of pits that are used for cd are of mixed breeding of blues bully’s staffs and what ever they just get classified as a pit most I have seen people use are of the staff but think it’s a pit. For general purposes it it due to the fact it originated off the same type of dog. If you do some bulldog history or kinda know what’s up there are many game dogs of yester yr that where above the 40 lb Mark. Now smaller was the average but there where many good dogs of the 55 lb range most think there match weight was there chain weight if you matched a dog at 40 his chain weight was probly 52 or so and so on this lead to the myth that all true game dogs or apbt was a 35 lb dog not always true. There are a lot of variations in this type dog due to the breeding of each different families of dogs but the where still kept game. Game dog is a state of mind for the dog not a apbt label.
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make-em-squeel
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A lot of pits that are used for cd are of mixed breeding of blues bully’s staffs and what ever they just get classified as a pit most I have seen people use are of the staff but think it’s a pit. For general purposes it it due to the fact it originated off the same type of dog. If you do some bulldog history or kinda know what’s up there are many game dogs of yester yr that where above the 40 lb Mark. Now smaller was the average but there where many good dogs of the 55 lb range most think there match weight was there chain weight if you matched a dog at 40 his chain weight was probly 52 or so and so on this lead to the myth that all true game dogs or apbt was a 35 lb dog not always true. There are a lot of variations in this type dog due to the breeding of each different families of dogs but the where still kept game. Game dog is a state of mind for the dog not a apbt label.
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yup, im one removed from the fight world but my breeder would generally agree. State of mind I defiantly agree with as i have some dogos and ab's as hard or as game as any pit in this world. |
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Semmes
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If you look at his sibling list you will find this dog. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=533442And couple others. You follow that dogs sibling forward in time you come up with amstaffs traded back and fourth Across the ocean and developed into that ‘breed’ This is real history. I have been an ab guy since 2003. But found it lacking in wind abs maybe a little overdone in other temperamental areas in some lines once I got into hunting. I now breed crosses. Make em squeal... where did you get your ab’s? Just asking... want to know what you are working with? I know Alan pretty well and just wondering what Scott stuff you are referencing big to. |
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Semmes
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I gave ownedtwo dogs grandsired by Joshua’s cowboy. On from lem and one from a customer lem. Sure are a lot of similarities of cowboy and tre previous peds. http://joshuakennels.com/page.php?9 |
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WayOutWest
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Semmes I am gonna speak for Tdog here. You wouldn't recognize much in his ped as they go back 5or 6 generation with his name for the most part. I judged shows for the ADBA for over 20 years and used to have a pretty good handle on lines. One of the few dogs I recognized was Freemans Preacher. You won't find any famous pit dogs in his line as he took a superb 80# lb. Catch dog and built a line of dogs from it. They have been registered with the ADBA but won't be much longer cause finding quality outcross dogs with papers is nearly impossible. The male I have from him is everything I wanted and a great pet to boot. I have taken 3 of my Jeep/Rascal/Redboy dogs down and they were very good at catching hogs but the problem was too excited. Being yanked thru the woods was no fun. There are lots of good dogs out there but I would put T's up there with anyones.
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Judge peel
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Ya I have heard from Tdog bout his dogs they sound pretty good. A dog won’t last long with me if he don’t settle down and behave its self that’s more on the handler then the dog but they have to have a touch of brains to be able to get it. Don’t make them catch better but it sure is nice most cd I see that people come and hunt with me or I go with them I would leave in the woods
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Austesus
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I think this topic is mainly focused on lead in catch dogs, which we don’t run. I know many people on here hunt with just a few bay dogs and a lead in but we hunt simply to rid farmers of pig problems. So with that being the goal we try to get them and shut em down hard. Typically have at least 6-7 dogs on the ground and most everything catches. Usually have 2-3 pits in the mix. There’s one little pit named trouble that’s only 25lbs. He was the runt of the litter with parents being 60ish lbs. This little dog has more heart than any dog I’ve ever seen. He’s the kind of dog that will hold on while standing in his own guts. He’s fast through the woods and catches on the nose every time. He’ll find his own pigs if they’re close but he’s a RCD for the most part. One time we hit a sounder with mostly young dogs, and all the dogs split up trying to go after their own pig. Heard a squeal and ran over to find him hanging on the nose of a 275lb boar getting tossed all over the place but he just wouldn’t let go, lol.  He’s the little brown dog on the right side of the picture. He’s between 3 and 4 years old now Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Trying to raise better dogs than yesterday.
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Austesus
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The guy I hunt with has also been running the two pits that are on the right side of this picture for a few months now. They’re about 65lbs. Really good RCD’s and if the two of them are hunted together they usually kill the pig by themselves before you get to it. I think they tend to get cut more than the little dog Trouble though.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Trying to raise better dogs than yesterday.
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hyan
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For me, I much prefer a dog y'all would consider very large. 29 to 30 inches tall, fairly long and around 100 to 110 pounds. The height and structure mean more to me than the weight, just using weight to help give visual to the size dogs I use.
Why I like such a dog can easily be seen on my Facebook videos. When comparing the videos of Macey the pit corso bitch to my wolfhound based dogs you will notice in the video's of the dogs holding the big boars, the wolfhounds center of gravity is more over there front shoulders when controlling a boar. This allows for many benefits to the dogs. You see how they hold and never get hit and make a big boar look like a joke. Macey on the other is a typical 60 pound pit looking dog. She is fun to watch in the video's because the pigs are able to lift her up, throw her around, etc and notice do to her lack of size where her center of gravity is put when attached to the big boars. You can plainly see the need for her vest because her structural difference prevents her from being able to pull a big boar around the way the other big dogs can. They periodically get her In some rather awkward situations and off her feet and out of controle and sometimes even In the air as can be seen In some pics and videos lol.
In the water my big dogs can stand and hold big pigs in the water just fine but a shorter dog like Macey will constantly be struggling for controle because her feet wouldn't touch in the same places the bigger pigs can thus giving them the ability to hit the swimming dog and keep it off them and or inflict harm on them. The pig rests and the dog is working out in that situation and the CD has little controle if any in this situation. I believe in the last video I posted you can see one of the big dogs holding a pig in the water. He had things well under controle, it was actually the pig that was using the energy to keep from sucking in a bunch of water. In other videos you can see the big dogs walking with big pigs and others especially when a good pig is against a fence and trying to get through, you can see the same dogs anchor a pig and not allow it to go forward where it wants to go. You can see boars try to come at me and the big dogs turn around. You can see pigs come at me when Macey has one one outed and I have to dodge the pigs. If your on my Facebook, pay attention to the dog and particularly analyze them and how the two different style of dogs are capable or incapable of imposing their will. After comparing the videos of each style of dog, can you really say the 60 plus pound Macey is an anchor? In any of the numorous videos can you ever see one of the big wolfhound based dogs in a situation where the pig is controlling it like Macey finds herself in now and then?
I'm not a bay dog guy. Those pigs are caught under different circumstances and since those pigs are so often allowed to run to the place of their choosing to defend themselves the average catch often happens in a different type environment than where my catchs are. I think pits are more suited for lead in work than my preferred type dog. My dogs are willing but their ability to move and avoid taken hits is stripped from them in stuff like briar thickets. A good pit will usually take far more punishment and continue to hold than what a lot of my type dogs will. For this reason I consider pits the kings of catch and the most appropriate style cd when used as lead ins by bay doggers
That's a great explanation of the differences in the two different styles of catch dogs Dean and something probably 95% of hog hunters, especially bay dog hunters, never take into consideration, and one of the reasons I've pondered the thought here lately about trying to cross a dog of your style onto one of our game bred pits, to add the height and frame without getting to bulky and sacrificing lung capacity, and maintaining overall athleticism,to add to the control factor, nothing more than an idea at the moment, what's your input, they'd be used as lead in CDs... I have done just that |
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MAUKA 2 MAKAI
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Black Streak
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For me, I much prefer a dog y'all would consider very large. 29 to 30 inches tall, fairly long and around 100 to 110 pounds. The height and structure mean more to me than the weight, just using weight to help give visual to the size dogs I use.
Why I like such a dog can easily be seen on my Facebook videos. When comparing the videos of Macey the pit corso bitch to my wolfhound based dogs you will notice in the video's of the dogs holding the big boars, the wolfhounds center of gravity is more over there front shoulders when controlling a boar. This allows for many benefits to the dogs. You see how they hold and never get hit and make a big boar look like a joke. Macey on the other is a typical 60 pound pit looking dog. She is fun to watch in the video's because the pigs are able to lift her up, throw her around, etc and notice do to her lack of size where her center of gravity is put when attached to the big boars. You can plainly see the need for her vest because her structural difference prevents her from being able to pull a big boar around the way the other big dogs can. They periodically get her In some rather awkward situations and off her feet and out of controle and sometimes even In the air as can be seen In some pics and videos lol.
In the water my big dogs can stand and hold big pigs in the water just fine but a shorter dog like Macey will constantly be struggling for controle because her feet wouldn't touch in the same places the bigger pigs can thus giving them the ability to hit the swimming dog and keep it off them and or inflict harm on them. The pig rests and the dog is working out in that situation and the CD has little controle if any in this situation. I believe in the last video I posted you can see one of the big dogs holding a pig in the water. He had things well under controle, it was actually the pig that was using the energy to keep from sucking in a bunch of water. In other videos you can see the big dogs walking with big pigs and others especially when a good pig is against a fence and trying to get through, you can see the same dogs anchor a pig and not allow it to go forward where it wants to go. You can see boars try to come at me and the big dogs turn around. You can see pigs come at me when Macey has one one outed and I have to dodge the pigs. If your on my Facebook, pay attention to the dog and particularly analyze them and how the two different style of dogs are capable or incapable of imposing their will. After comparing the videos of each style of dog, can you really say the 60 plus pound Macey is an anchor? In any of the numorous videos can you ever see one of the big wolfhound based dogs in a situation where the pig is controlling it like Macey finds herself in now and then?
I'm not a bay dog guy. Those pigs are caught under different circumstances and since those pigs are so often allowed to run to the place of their choosing to defend themselves the average catch often happens in a different type environment than where my catchs are. I think pits are more suited for lead in work than my preferred type dog. My dogs are willing but their ability to move and avoid taken hits is stripped from them in stuff like briar thickets. A good pit will usually take far more punishment and continue to hold than what a lot of my type dogs will. For this reason I consider pits the kings of catch and the most appropriate style cd when used as lead ins by bay doggers
For me personally ive mixed the best of both worlds, with pit mixes/the right dogos/scott bred abs, ive been able to get a cleaner holding, longer legged, more athletic lead in cd that is similar to your wolfhound type holders but as hard as any pit in our "bad situations" bay dog hunters like me turn cds into. Athletic is key, big or small, endurance is # 1 bc if you cant breathe you cant fight, ( I would take a hard cd with good endurance despite any size, ive seen as many small dogs vs big dogs have trouble here, the build and muscle mass matters.) # 2 is keeping the legs on the ground and getting in the right spot that short pits have trouble doing on big hogs, they get their feet up in the air like a dish towel in the wind simply bc of where their mouth is vs the hogs ear and despite not letting go they can not anchor and control a hog like a wrestler as good as a dog with longer leg. I love all good cds and have caught many of pig with all kinds but hardness that will never let go in bad spots, endurance, clean holding, and dominating pigs like a wrestler are key imo for the best all around cd. Sir I don't mean to make you mad but not 1 of the breeds you mentioned are similar to the mind, or structure, or athleticism of a wolfhound. In fact all of those breeds you bred together to get the dog you describe only come from the same nich of pig dog. Stack a pit, dogo, and AB up to one another. What's the big body structure diffence and mental difference in one vs the others. That's like a beer drinker combining 3 different brands of beer and telling a whiskey drinker he now has something similar to whiskey. You can't take 3 cars, combine them and get a similar 4×4 1 ton work truck like I use out of them, no matter if 1 is a Roles Royce, another a caddy, and another a lincon. Each is still a car and your new creation would still be a car. I say this bluntly because truth needs to be shared and kept in check. Way to much misinformation is allowed to flourish and go uncorrected. Others come along and read it oblivious to is incorrectness and then are worse off for having read it if they know no different. |
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tmatt
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and fyi real pits are 40 lbs what most hunters call real pits are mixed with something or they wouldnt be 60 lbs
Now... I will disagree with this statement. Judge explained it in his post but I couldn't just pass this by and not respond to it. Will you please explain to me what a real pit is? I guess I don't know because I have what I consider to be real pits and quite a few have been well over 40 pounds. I can assure you these dogs have not been crossed with any other breed of dog and are ADBA registered dogs. Once I see what you call a "real" pit we will finish this discussion. |
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Be who you are and say what you mean because those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.
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tmatt
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yup, im one removed from the fight world but my breeder would generally agree. State of mind I defiantly agree with as i have some dogos and ab's as hard or as game as any pit in this world.
Make-em-squeal, I will disagree with this too... APBTs are the gamest dogs made and it is not fair to the breed to say you have a mixed breed or ab that is as game as any pit there is. You must be a long way removed from the "fight world" as you put it if you think you have a dog as game as a good APBT!
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Be who you are and say what you mean because those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.
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