Last few weeks

[Black Streak]

Started a young dog as of last few weeks.    1st hunt typical, couldn't negotiate the fences.  Next hunt lugging up well, dozen pigs later he is hitting first and swinging going after his own.    He the red dog. 

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[Judge peel]

Dang son you killing it


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[Black Streak]

Thanks, I hope to be doing even better soon.   Put a little different spin on the dogs coming up.  Bigger, harder, and more intense.  Can't wait. 

[shadygrovehawgdawg]

Man, doing all the good. How big is he?

[Black Streak]

Man, doing all the good. How big is he?

    I don't know.   Never put tap or scales to him.  He is smaller than my average dog.  He about 28 inches and roughly 90 pounds I'd guess.   Still big enough that he makes a decent pig look like a small.    For a practical dog, he is about ideal.   

[Slim9797]

Pretty neat deal there Dean. Good hogs


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[NLAhunter]

Good deal nice hogs

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[Goose87]

Awesome stuff Dean, that second to last picture is pretty dang neat, I’ve always had an admiration of these dogs for a long time, 16 years ago or so my mother bought me a dvd from Australia for my birthday, bloom brothers maybe, and I’ve always had a liking for them since, what’s your red dog???

[Black Streak]

Awesome stuff Dean, that second to last picture is pretty dang neat, I’ve always had an admiration of these dogs for a long time, 16 years ago or so my mother bought me a dvd from Australia for my birthday, bloom brothers maybe, and I’ve always had a liking for them since, what’s your red dog???

    Thanks Goose,    I communicate a little with Greg Bloom.   Actually most of my pictures on a weekly basis go up on his Face Book page.       The red dog is just a dog I bred from my hairy dogs that I outcrossed in order to bring in a little more hardness and consistency to the hairy dog.   He is roughly 1/4 wolfhound, 1/4 stag, 3/8 pit, 1/8 cane corso.       
    Had I had a good couple dane males like I have now inwoukd have never went the pit route.    Not because I'm disappointed with the outcome but because he just not quite the all around dog I want out of such a type of dog.       He casts great, will go 5 to 600 yards deep but not natural enough on the nose department.     Not putting that nose down and taking a scent to the pig yet consistently if a pig makes it out of sight.             For that though come the Great Danes.    Holy hell!    A good dane is a special kind of problem.   Wicked hard and such a hunt drive and OCD to them.    This practical stuff with a good hairy dog is almost non existent with a decent Dane.    Drop one of these Danes in pig country and he's gone.   You get him back when he finds an pig and you get to the catch.   I like to tie my pigs and sale them.  I hunt by myself almost always.  Very hard to get a Dane off a pig when you have taken possession of the pig.   They are so OCD and have so much hatred for pigs and so hard its unreal.   Got to really work with them at home and following commands in order to tie pigs by yourself when you use such an mentality of dog and such big strong basterds.     We have since crossed our hairy dogs to the Dane and have hairy dogs that now hunt really hard but are practical.    Hunt like a dane, role out like a hairy dog after the catch, and not so OCD crazy that makes tying by yourself such a headache.        I'll never not have such Danes again.  They are awsome for stabbing and do everything and have the strength and stamina needed to back up that hardness when caught way out in the woods. 

[shadygrovehawgdawg]

I’d be really interested to know where you can find a Dane like that. A friend of mine crossed one with a pit gyp and has a nice catch dog. He just uses him for a lead in, but he is a leggy nice dog. I’d love to see a dog like yours work. I have a half pit half cane corso . He’s leggy and hard to break off by yourself too. He doesn’t have a lot of hunt but he’s a hard mouth dog. Laid back and don’t get excited till the dogs bay. I don’t take him by myself much anymore, him and a couple curs are more than a handful when you’re tying hogs. Keep us updated on him. Thanks.

[Black Streak]

I’d be really interested to know where you can find a Dane like that. A friend of mine crossed one with a pit gyp and has a nice catch dog. He just uses him for a lead in, but he is a leggy nice dog. I’d love to see a dog like yours work. I have a half pit half cane corso . He’s leggy and hard to break off by yourself too. He doesn’t have a lot of hunt but he’s a hard mouth dog. Laid back and don’t get excited till the dogs bay. I don’t take him by myself much anymore, him and a couple curs are more than a handful when you’re tying hogs. Keep us updated on him. Thanks.

I've been given a couple danes to train on that took to hunting fairly easy but would not catch there own pig.      If you know what to look for, picking a dane that takes to hunting and smashing big boars 1 out is relatively easy.     Usually can find them very cheap if not free.    They are the problem danes that are to much for their owners.   To hyper and energetic for their liking, to hard headed, or rengades that take to killing farm animals  or catching them such as does, horses, etc.         Pretty easy for a dog man to stock break such a dog and this dog will take to pigs naturally.      Needs not be shy, a dane shoukd be bold and courageous.      Easy to pick a mature dane like this, just don't get any that hace been desexed as it causes huge health problems.             Don't get pup, they are expensive and never know what your getting.      Could get a shy lazy pup  that wastes 18 months of your time and feed.   
    Most pig doggers will not be able to hunt such a dog for its a hole nother caliber of dog both in strength and determination and he ain't gonna stick around at your feet, he going off to find pigs if in pig country.      It's a different level of responsibility to hunt such a dog.           Crossing a good dane to a pit does nothing for hardness and gets you shorter range dogs usually but still very handy and useful dogs.     The pit is the only dog that can equal the hardness of a decent dane.   I've owned pits and I own danes.   The hardest dog I've ever owned is a dane and the best hunter in ever owned are danes.          People will call B.S. on all this in sure till they see it in real life.   I would not want a dane as a lead in just because they will bounce you off every tree in the pasture and drag your butt to the bay less you got a fantastic handle on them. 

[Judge peel]

Dean I have had a few Danes and few Dane to pit crosses they made good farm dogs and defenders no luck hunting tho for me they would get a pig but they had to stumble on it and no stick what so ever. Very cool looking dogs tho. I guess if a fella could get one with the right stuff he might have something. But they are huge animals I am into the smaller dog myself. Just easier to handle. My buddy had a Dane x cur few yrs back was a real specimen but I don’t think he ever got him going. Do you think they are better as a pure dog or just to use for crossing for a more versatile dog. Like lot of guys where doing with pit x greyhound ten yrs ago. I never seen hunted with any but my dad told me stories of them using that cross in the forty’s to catch jack rabbits to eat.


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[Black Streak]

Dean I have had a few Danes and few Dane to pit crosses they made good farm dogs and defenders no luck hunting tho for me they would get a pig but they had to stumble on it and no stick what so ever. Very cool looking dogs tho. I guess if a fella could get one with the right stuff he might have something. But they are huge animals I am into the smaller dog myself. Just easier to handle. My buddy had a Dane x cur few yrs back was a real specimen but I don’t think he ever got him going. Do you think they are better as a pure dog or just to use for crossing for a more versatile dog. Like lot of guys where doing with pit x greyhound ten yrs ago. I never seen hunted with any but my dad told me stories of them using that cross in the forty’s to catch jack rabbits to eat.



    The dane has not hunted in centuries.  They are not a mastiff even though they are lumped into the mastiff breeds.   They are a gaze hound also known as boar hounds.    Centuries of being bred by non hunters for yard ornimants and now by people who will not sale a pup to anyone who they suspect will keep the dog in a yard rather than in the house and being in the mastiff breed has destroyed the boar hound.    Many can not move well, are clumsy and slow, are timid and shy, lazy and indifferent.     Nothing like what a true dane supposed to be.        Still a lot of good danes out there but they are seen as problem danes because they are to bold, to energetic, to hard headed and independent, to rough etc for pet people.        These danes are usually cheap or free and if they have good structure they are generally pretty natural pig dogs.    Not always but generally.              A decent Dane will usually be your best nose and be a far ranging dog.        I'm talking about boar hounds not junk pin headed timid shy structurally terrible danes.     
     I prefer dogs that find and catch their own pigs.    Preferring to lug on the bigger pigs in a group and not fooling much with the small ones.      Run on and keep catching more from the group once the one they are holding has been taken away from them or killed.     Do to the type hunting I do and my preference in hunting 1 or 2 dogs only and each grab their own, I prefer the big powerful hard dog that will control a big boar even after having to hold for a long time.   I run many hundreds of yards each find and even farther on role outs.  I'm exhausted when I get to the catch even more so running to this dog holding a pig then then having to run to the other.  Then they role out and keep rolling out.     Your numb, your lungs are on fire, your stumbling and fighting to remain upright and get there as soon as you can.    It's sure nice to have a dog thats controlling a big boar rather than just hanging on and being drug around.   I have fallen several times struggling with the boar trying to flip because I'm so exhausted.      Caught in the open just you, the dog, and a big pissed boar, it's mighty handy to have a dog in controle.     A group of dogs on same pig is ok too but I don't hunt a group of dogs.        I have some pictures of a brand new dane I just started this week.  He came out of someone's living room and was lugged up on 2 pigs that very night.       I have another at the house.  He is the hardest dog I've ever had and as good a pig dog as it gets.   He don't hunt much, I use him as stud.  He is an old man but I have pics and video of him doing his thing too.         
     As far as crossing them, you can use them to add nose and hardness or size to something that's making.    But use a proven dane, to much trash out there.    Most people don't know first thing about a boar hound so getting a good one is luck.    Little different if you ever seen a good do their thing.  Kinda know what your looking for in them if so and you will probably never look at then same again if you ever hunted behind a proper Dane.     It's like a 140 pound 32 inch tall pit that has a nose like a coon hound.         

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[Black Streak]

Judge I forgot to answere your question on crossing a dane.    First thing when using a breed to cross to is the question of why?    Why are you wanting to cross or what are you looking for.   I will talk in terms of a good dane or Boar Hounds, not a junk dane.      So why cross to a boar hound? You will be diluting his nose, his desire to hunt, doing nothing for his stamina or strength, and depending on what your crossing him to, your diluting his hardness or doing nothing to improve upon it.    A boar hounds hardness is really only equaled by that of a pit.    So what have we gained by diluting the boar hound?       Virtually nothing if you are crossing it to a cur or pit.   Ever tried to walk hunt behind a scent hound that put his nose to the ground and was just gone hunting, won't come back, goes a mile or 3 just where ever his nose takes him?    Very difficult to hunt this style of catch dog and back him up  by getting to him in a timely manner and certainly need big places for such a dog.    You wouldn't turn a scent hound loose on 300 acres nor should you do the same with a boar hound and expect to stay on your permission.           
   Back to crossing to the boar hound.   A big reason to cross one is to restore the structure and natural physic capabilities  only a small percentage of the danes still have.    Crossing them to something like a deerhound then breeding back to a boar hound for 3/4 dane 1/4 deerhound will improve the structure and confirmation and restore the agility and speed the great dane should have.   Remember they are a gaze hound not a daniff.     No loose jowls or dulap, not a big broad dog but a somewhat slinder heavy stag type athletic look to the structure and confirmation.     Taking the cross back to the boarhound typically yeilds a dane style hunting dog but with improved agility and structure, if such is lacking.     It is lacking in my own danes and I have indeed made the cross but I will also have and breed full danes but improve upon structure while trying to maintain the OCD pig dog mentality.   
    Another reason to cross is for a more practical dog like a good hairy dog.   Your basically improving the hairy dog not the dane in this first cross.  You will improve nose and hardness and range while keeping a lot of the desire to please and follow commands.          For bay doggers to really comprehend what I'm referring to here, it would be like crossing a scent hound to a boarder collie.   Your improving the hunt characteristics of the boarder collie if lacking but doing nothing but diluting the scent hounds hunt style and nose but achieving a good hunting dog that listens to you and is more pleasurable and practical to hunt in a lot of situations.     
     I've seen several dane pit crosses.  All were pretty handy dogs being able to do just about anything from crop work to pretty good finder holder type, to really good lead ins.   Very practical and handy dogs but you have really only created a larger more athletic pit more than anything here.   Also the danes used in the making of such crosses I've seen were junk but the cross turned out pretty decent.         
     Another handy cross to make is for the crop dogger looking to improve upon the stag.   A stag isn't really a 1 out hard dog and crossing it to a pit yeilds a smaller dog than desired.  A stag is a danty dog not really powerful enough in the jaw structure to 1 out big boars even if it has the heart in rare cases.     Crossing a stag to a good dane such as the boar hound will produce outstanding crop dogs far superior to the full stag.     However we need to be crossing a good stag that is 100% ear to a good boar hound.   If i was strickly a crop dogger I would make this cross, not to improve upon the dane but to improve the stag as a pig dog crop dog.       
     So crossing to a Dane is good if you know what your doing but I know of only 1 other person in the entire US with the knowledge and understanding of dogs to make crosses like this that will eventually improve upon the dane rather than distort it.          Crossing to a bay dog, why do this? Like crossing a pit to a bay dog, what the heck have you just improved upon?      A good pit man would throw up in his mouth if he sees such a cross lol.  Just get a good pit, I promis they are out there.   Improve upon the breed, don't dilute it.   Crossing a scent hound to a bay dog, what are you after here?    Silent style scent hound or more nose and hunt to your bay dog, I can see this but your not improving the scent hound, your just improving the bay dog.       
    Basically why cross to a Dane?    To improve upon a different breed such as the stag for a more appropriate crop dog, or to put more size and hunt in a pit, or to restore the structure and agility in the great dane breed itself because of all the mastiff blood and Euro crap that's handicapped the breed as a working dog now but, you need to go back to the great dane not continuely breed away from it.    3/4 dane 1/4 deerhound or 7/8 dane 1/8 deerhound etc to really restore and bring back the proper structure if the dane while keeping to the dane mentality.     

[Reuben]

Did you consider the Dogo?

I have seen a few Dogos that their conformation was near perfect and had plenty of speed and power with extreme hard bite...and true some are not what I consider a solid catch dog but I would think there are way more Dogos out there catching hogs than Danes...so I imagine it would be harder to find a proven family of Danes as hog dogs...good pictures...thanks for sharing

[Black Streak]

Did you consider the Dogo?

I have seen a few Dogos that their conformation was near perfect and had plenty of speed and power with extreme hard bite...and true some are not what I consider a solid catch dog but I would think there are way more Dogos out there catching hogs than Danes...so I imagine it would be harder to find a proven family of Danes as hog dogs...good pictures...thanks for sharing

    I know their is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the dogo and dogo people think their dogs can do all pig dog work to a high degree.   I will dance lightly around the dogo for their owners are usually wonderful people.   There are multiple and significant reasons why  I don't have pictures of dogos holding pigs.     To all my dogo friends who might read this, I apologize for the high blood pressure I just now caused. 
             

[Judge peel]

Gotcha


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[TheRednose]

Great post Dean. I agree with you on the mixing breeds part. Too many people thinking they can mix dogs like they can mix paint instead of refining a line or breed. Evidence of this is just go to FB and look at all the garbage people are trying to get rid of. There are a few breeders that have success mixing breeds but they are rare and definitely in the minority. For example I have always told people you want a rough Plott find rough lines and then selectively breed for roughness, don't add pit as that will open up a whole new can of good and bad traits to deal with. You can do it and it may work but for how many generations and how consistent does it breed through to all of a litter. If you outcross you will breed back into the line to get it where it is consistent and that takes a lot of hunting and culling. There are some breeders that can do this type of thing but most people cannot as it takes a lot of breeding knowledge, time, hunting, culling, and money to do it. In most cases you will have more success refining a line if you can find one close to what you want, but some people have a hard time with that too.

Just my two cents

Dean I have watched your dogs improve since you went the finder/holder route when we first became friends, so people may not agree with you but the proof is in the pudding and you have been able to prove your methods. I have no doubt they will only continue to get better. Look forward to seeing the progress.

[Goose87]

Judge I forgot to answere your question on crossing a dane.    First thing when using a breed to cross to is the question of why?    Why are you wanting to cross or what are you looking for.   I will talk in terms of a good dane or Boar Hounds, not a junk dane.      So why cross to a boar hound? You will be diluting his nose, his desire to hunt, doing nothing for his stamina or strength, and depending on what your crossing him to, your diluting his hardness or doing nothing to improve upon it.    A boar hounds hardness is really only equaled by that of a pit.    So what have we gained by diluting the boar hound?       Virtually nothing if you are crossing it to a cur or pit.   Ever tried to walk hunt behind a scent hound that put his nose to the ground and was just gone hunting, won't come back, goes a mile or 3 just where ever his nose takes him?    Very difficult to hunt this style of catch dog and back him up  by getting to him in a timely manner and certainly need big places for such a dog.    You wouldn't turn a scent hound loose on 300 acres nor should you do the same with a boar hound and expect to stay on your permission.          
   Back to crossing to the boar hound.   A big reason to cross one is to restore the structure and natural physic capabilities  only a small percentage of the danes still have.    Crossing them to something like a deerhound then breeding back to a boar hound for 3/4 dane 1/4 deerhound will improve the structure and confirmation and restore the agility and speed the great dane should have.   Remember they are a gaze hound not a daniff.     No loose jowls or dulap, not a big broad dog but a somewhat slinder heavy stag type athletic look to the structure and confirmation.     Taking the cross back to the boarhound typically yeilds a dane style hunting dog but with improved agility and structure, if such is lacking.     It is lacking in my own danes and I have indeed made the cross but I will also have and breed full danes but improve upon structure while trying to maintain the OCD pig dog mentality.   
    Another reason to cross is for a more practical dog like a good hairy dog.   Your basically improving the hairy dog not the dane in this first cross.  You will improve nose and hardness and range while keeping a lot of the desire to please and follow commands.          For bay doggers to really comprehend what I'm referring to here, it would be like crossing a scent hound to a boarder collie.   Your improving the hunt characteristics of the boarder collie if lacking but doing nothing but diluting the scent hounds hunt style and nose but achieving a good hunting dog that listens to you and is more pleasurable and practical to hunt in a lot of situations.     
     I've seen several dane pit crosses.  All were pretty handy dogs being able to do just about anything from crop work to pretty good finder holder type, to really good lead ins.   Very practical and handy dogs but you have really only created a larger more athletic pit more than anything here.   Also the danes used in the making of such crosses I've seen were junk but the cross turned out pretty decent.        
     Another handy cross to make is for the crop dogger looking to improve upon the stag.   A stag isn't really a 1 out hard dog and crossing it to a pit yeilds a smaller dog than desired.  A stag is a danty dog not really powerful enough in the jaw structure to 1 out big boars even if it has the heart in rare cases.     Crossing a stag to a good dane such as the boar hound will produce outstanding crop dogs far superior to the full stag.     However we need to be crossing a good stag that is 100% ear to a good boar hound.   If i was strickly a crop dogger I would make this cross, not to improve upon the dane but to improve the stag as a pig dog crop dog.      
     So crossing to a Dane is good if you know what your doing but I know of only 1 other person in the entire US with the knowledge and understanding of dogs to make crosses like this that will eventually improve upon the dane rather than distort it.          Crossing to a bay dog, why do this? Like crossing a pit to a bay dog, what the heck have you just improved upon?      A good pit man would throw up in his mouth if he sees such a cross lol.  Just get a good pit, I promis they are out there.   Improve upon the breed, don't dilute it.   Crossing a scent hound to a bay dog, what are you after here?    Silent style scent hound or more nose and hunt to your bay dog, I can see this but your not improving the scent hound, your just improving the bay dog.       
    Basically why cross to a Dane?    To improve upon a different breed such as the stag for a more appropriate crop dog, or to put more size and hunt in a pit, or to restore the structure and agility in the great dane breed itself because of all the mastiff blood and Euro crap that's handicapped the breed as a working dog now but, you need to go back to the great dane not continuely breed away from it.    3/4 dane 1/4 deerhound or 7/8 dane 1/8 deerhound etc to really restore and bring back the proper structure if the dane while keeping to the dane mentality.   

Dean what do you know of mitochondrial dna ?

[Black Streak]

Great post Dean. I agree with you on the mixing breeds part. Too many people thinking they can mix dogs like they can mix paint instead of refining a line or breed. Evidence of this is just go to FB and look at all the garbage people are trying to get rid of. There are a few breeders that have success mixing breeds but they are rare and definitely in the minority. For example I have always told people you want a rough Plott find rough lines and then selectively breed for roughness, don't add pit as that will open up a whole new can of good and bad traits to deal with. You can do it and it may work but for how many generations and how consistent does it breed through to all of a litter. If you outcross you will breed back into the line to get it where it is consistent and that takes a lot of hunting and culling. There are some breeders that can do this type of thing but most people cannot as it takes a lot of breeding knowledge, time, hunting, culling, and money to do it. In most cases you will have more success refining a line if you can find one close to what you want, but some people have a hard time with that too.

Just my two cents

Dean I have watched your dogs improve since you went the finder/holder route when we first became friends, so people may not agree with you but the proof is in the pudding and you have been able to prove your methods. I have no doubt they will only continue to get better. Look forward to seeing the progress.

    Michael what I have coming up I believe will change a lot of perceptions about things.           I certainly have been very blessed with the dogs I have used in the past.     Always improving and adapting because the pigs are getting more and more savy.     Plus I just love breeding better pig dogs.     What's going on with my yard will no doubt have a big impact on how a lot of people do things in the years to come.