How tight is too tight?

[TAPOUT YOUNG]

HAS ANYBODY DONE HALF BROTHER HALF SISTER CROSS ? IF SO HOW DID IT TURN OUT.

[Goose87]

HAS ANYBODY DONE HALF BROTHER HALF SISTER CROSS ? IF SO HOW DID IT TURN OUT.

It's been done quite a bit, it's a common cross when trying to line breed, as long as the common ancestor is the type of dog that meets your standards, because your doubling up on the good and bad that he or she possesses, I just attempted a full brother and sister cross, I'm not sure if she took or not, my main reason was to get more dogs like the parents and they are f1 crosses themselves so there wasn't anything related to them to go back to without giving up the traits either side  of the cross brings to the table brings to the table...

[Lacy man]

I think your good since Winchester, tweety, and pancho are un related dogs you should be fine for some time. Personal opinion.


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[TheRednose]

I think your good since Winchester, tweety, and pancho are un related dogs you should be fine for some time. Personal opinion.

I would agree, gives you a pretty big pool of genes to work with.

I spoke to an old cat hunter who breeds his own dogs. He doesn't breed outside of his family, he doesn't care about relation other than his one rule of not breeding full brother to full sister. Other than that he doesn't consider relation in his breeding decision. He only looks at what dogs have and what they are lacking and breeds them accordingly. I'm not saying it is right or the only way to go but it worked for him and has been for some time.

He said the same thing when I asked him if he will outcross and he said, he will not outcross until the dogs start going in the wrong direction.

[t-dog]

I have a friend that is one of the top greyhound people in the country. We were talking about breeding dogs and I asked what his approach was. He chuckled and said, I breed whatever is winning at the time. If there is a particular cross that is really producing then he will make that cross as well. He said it's usually a best to best thing. He said the winningest breeder in greyhound history line bred 3 generations then made an out cross. The out cross was selected by whatever weakness he felt the lie bred dogs possessed. If he thought them well rounded then he chose an out cross with the most likeness. This worked for him for a long time.

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[bigo]

I have a dog from a half brother sister breeding that is the best producing dog I have ever owned, male or female. He produces a very high percentage of top quality pups from what ever he is bred to. They have all been better than the female. The breeding that produced him, was to double up on Clue Andersons Cowboy dog. He was one of the best producing, preforming, and looking dogs I've ever seen and I believe line breeding him will produce some of the best dogs this line ever had.

[TAPOUT YOUNG]

GOOSE I HAVE DONE THREE NOW AND NOT HAPPY WITH PERCENT OF PUPS TURNING OUT. I HAVE ONLY  ONE OR TWO THAT MAKE THE CUT .IS THAT HOW IT IS WITH THIS CROSS . THE ONE OR TWO THAT MAKE IT ARE REALLY NICE.

[bigo]

 I neglected to add that the mother to the sire was a Ben Jordan female line bred to the same dogs as Clues and mine. The mother to the dam of my dog was line bred to the same dogs bred by me. Just some different outcrosses along the way, by each breeder, but always to proven lines of stock dogs.

[Goose87]

GOOSE I HAVE DONE THREE NOW AND NOT HAPPY WITH PERCENT OF PUPS TURNING OUT. I HAVE ONLY  ONE OR TWO THAT MAKE THE CUT .IS THAT HOW IT IS WITH THIS CROSS . THE ONE OR TWO THAT MAKE IT ARE REALLY NICE.

What caliber of dog was the common ancestor that your doubling up on?

[t-dog]

A dominant stud is special. I like line breeding myself. The only cross I have done that i didn't care for was the mother son cross. I was told to avoid that cross by an old timer and 3 times I ignored it and 3 times it was disastrous. There won't be a 4th lol.

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[Goose87]

I think your good since Winchester, tweety, and pancho are un related dogs you should be fine for some time. Personal opinion.

I would agree, gives you a pretty big pool of genes to work with.

I spoke to an old cat hunter who breeds his own dogs. He doesn't breed outside of his family, he doesn't care about relation other than his one rule of not breeding full brother to full sister. Other than that he doesn't consider relation in his breeding decision. He only looks at what dogs have and what they are lacking and breeds them accordingly. I'm not saying it is right or the only way to go but it worked for him and has been for some time.

He said the same thing when I asked him if he will outcross and he said, he will not outcross until the dogs start going in the wrong direction.

Any particular reason why he doesn't do a full sibling cross, I'm hoping to have some pups on the ground before long out of such cross, my main reason behind was to get some more of that genetic material to work with, if something happens to either parent it sets me back the 4 years I have invested in them, I don't plan on repeating it again if I can get a litter this time, I'll have more avenues I'll be able to go down instead of a two way street...

[WayOutWest]

One thing to keep in mind on linebreeding is there are things that happen that you don't see. I had a gyp that was brother/sister for 2 generations and her immune system was very weak. They couldn't count titers in her bloodwork. She died at 7. I am a believer in linebreeding but I am a firm believer in an outcross once in a while. As others have said you also can get smaller litters smaller dogs and immune system issues. I don't believe that you are anywhere near that Mike.

[Goose87]

One thing to keep in mind on linebreeding is there are things that happen that you don't see. I had a gyp that was brother/sister for 2 generations and her immune system was very weak. They couldn't count titers in her bloodwork. She died at 7. I am a believer in linebreeding but I am a firm believer in an outcross once in a while. As others have said you also can get smaller litters smaller dogs and immune system issues. I don't believe that you are anywhere near that Mike.

It's looking like Mother Nature intervened and she never got bred, I mounted my male to her once and he missed his shot and knotted up outside, so I put him in his chain and just put him in the pen the next day and left them for the rest of heat, she should be springing hard now but isn't showing any signs of it, I guess they knew something I didn't, the sire to these two is HEAVY line bred to begin with, should've went with my gut instead of logic and bred her to my Smutt male this time like I had planned on her next litter...

[Goose87]

What software is that goose?


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I believe it's called pedigree explorer, great friend of mine has it and uses it and bought the hardware disc and I took my laptop over there and we downloaded it on mine, I absolutely love it, I believe there's more up to date versions out there now, I've had mine about 5 years or so now...

[Reuben]

So far the recipe is still good... this litter should tell the tale.

Reuben, there’s several 25-50% related dogs out there that I can cross back to. That would be my plan when I do... I don’t think I’ll ever make a 100% outcross.

That is a good way...when the dogs look right and hunt right you need to do all you can to keep it that way and improve on it when you can...improving does not mean going outside the line...it means picking the best from within the line of dogs to hunt and breed...the proof is in all the pigs you are catching...

Outcrossing can be for improvement in any area...but in your case it is more to rejuvenate the vigor before it drops off...at least that is what it seems to me...

[TAPOUT YOUNG]

GOOSE SHE IS A NICE DOG HUNT OUT MILE NO SIGN. ALWAYS FINDING HOGS . I BRED HER TO THREE DIFFERENT MALES TWO WHERE BROTHERS. OUT OF TEN PUPS EIGHT WOULD MAKE NICE DOGS IN EACH LITTER. THE OLD MAN I WAS TALKING TO PASSED HE DIDNT GET TO TELL ME  WHAT PERCENT IN THAT CROSS WOULD TURN OUT . WISH I COULD ASK HIM THAT . 

[TheRednose]

I spoke to an old cat hunter who breeds his own dogs. He doesn't breed outside of his family, he doesn't care about relation other than his one rule of not breeding full brother to full sister. Other than that he doesn't consider relation in his breeding decision. He only looks at what dogs have and what they are lacking and breeds them accordingly. I'm not saying it is right or the only way to go but it worked for him and has been for some time.

He said the same thing when I asked him if he will outcross and he said, he will not outcross until the dogs start going in the wrong direction.

Any particular reason why he doesn't do a full sibling cross, I'm hoping to have some pups on the ground before long out of such cross, my main reason behind was to get some more of that genetic material to work with, if something happens to either parent it sets me back the 4 years I have invested in them, I don't plan on repeating it again if I can get a litter this time, I'll have more avenues I'll be able to go down instead of a two way street...

I didn't ask him the reason, I assumed to keep the pool of genes going longer without having to outcross. But as previously stated it was an assumption.

An old gamedog man talk to me about that cross once too. He said if you really want to see where your family of dogs is at, good and bad do a full brother/sister cross. This was a well known gamedog man back in his time.

[t-dog]

It's always been  explained to me that once you've been line breeding for several  generations and you get to that point where the negatives really start to surface and your percentages drop off, then back up to the last breeding that produced a dog that was what you were looking for. If there was a pair that fit the bill then breed them together. If there is only one then make the breeding again in hopes of getting the opposite sex of the one you already have. In doing this you "set" the gene. If you haven't reached your desired outcome then it's time to make an out cross that will hopefully improve the short comings you are seeing.

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[TShelly]

You’ll be good like everyone above mentioned. Good luck with them.

I know where some more 25% blooded ones are if you ever run out. They are all pretty nice dogs in that whole litter.



The gyp is on the left and the two males are blaze faced and on the left side of the next box. You need to go make a hunt with them sometime.


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[TAPOUT YOUNG]

GOOSE   GIVE ME A CALL ONE NITE I WOULD LIKE TO PICK YOUR BRAIN ON BREEDING . 903 790 0102   THE MAN I TALKED TO PASSED AWAY