Freeze Branding FYI

[chipolariverman]

Just wanted to share a personal experience I just had about Freeze Branding dogs.  Just to let everyone know don't go to your Department of Agriculture and "register" your brand that you put on your dog.  1st they won't register it and 2nd if they find out you "branded" your dog they will report it as animal cruelty.  I explained that I wanted to do it as a form of identification like the micro chipped but for a visual form instead of the dog having to be carried to a vet or pound.  The person I spoke with stated they only govern "livestock" and stated again that if it was reported the dogs had been branded it would be reported as animal cruelty. 

I live in FL and this is the statue that he sent to me;

"585.01“Livestock” means grazing animals, such as cattle, horses, sheep, swine, goats, other hoofed animals, ostriches, emus, and rheas which are raised for private use or commercial purposes."

I asked for the statue about "branding" being an act of animal cruelty and he did not have it.  I have searched for hours and have not found it specifically but did find some that with the world we live in today would be questionable.  I have also researched this for AL, LA and TX and they all have the same or basically the same definition of "Livestock". 

So this being said I hope we have no fake dog people patrolling this site and for all of us dog men's sake DO NOT put anything on FaceBook about branding your dogs or you could have the Dog Police showing up confiscating your dogs due to cruelty and then you would have you a fight on your hands and spend unknown amounts of money trying to defend your actions.  Just food for thought.

[NLAhunter]

In Louisiana you can register a brand just for dogs

[rdjustham]

Here is the Florida statue.  Now the question would be is the removal of hair and altering of the hair follicle mutilating?  To me it is not, to most SAO prosecutors I wouldnt think so but.... you never know.  Just an FYI working a hog in a pen in Fl is also illegal and falls under this exact statue. 

828.12 Cruelty to animals.—
(1) A person who unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal, or causes the same to be done, or carries in or upon any vehicle, or otherwise, any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner, commits animal cruelty, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both.

[t-dog]

Hot brands would maybe fall under this but I wouldn't think freeze branding. That's the whole point and purpose is so that there is no injury or open wounds or sores to have to doctor on top of it being a little more visible than the hot brand.

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[t-dog]

There are idiots that interpret the law just like there are some with common sense

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[Black Streak]

The spca is not a common sense organization.     They have the pockets and backing of the leftist gov.   I'll just leave it at. 

[Black Streak]

that

[Goose87]

If a fella were to get into any legal trouble for doing this it may cost a little money but can easily be beaten just by the verbiage of that statute itself, no one would “unnecessarily” freeze brand a dog, it is “necessary” to help in deterring theft, same argument could be thrown up about removing dewclaws, docking tails, and ear cropping, which are all performed every day by state licensed veterinarians all over the state of Florida, now all those are “unnecessarily mutilating” and in 99% of instances where it’s done is strictly for cosmetic reasons and personal preferences by the owner, just use common sense and don’t go posting all over social media what your doing, or telling a lot folks who don’t need to know, do what you gotta do in a humane manner and be done with it, once it’s done it’s done and if they don’t catch you in the act or have hard evidence of cruelty against you such as a video of you actually performing the branding then they have no leg to stand on...

[chipolariverman]

The spca is not a common sense organization.     They have the pockets and backing of the leftist gov.   I'll just leave it at. 

I agree 100% Black Streak that is why I didn't push the issue with the Dept of Ag here in FL.  I just told the individual ok and thanks for their time.

[chipolariverman]

If a fella were to get into any legal trouble for doing this it may cost a little money but can easily be beaten just by the verbiage of that statute itself, no one would “unnecessarily” freeze brand a dog, it is “necessary” to help in deterring theft, same argument could be thrown up about removing dewclaws, docking tails, and ear cropping, which are all performed every day by state licensed veterinarians all over the state of Florida, now all those are “unnecessarily mutilating” and in 99% of instances where it’s done is strictly for cosmetic reasons and personal preferences by the owner, just use common sense and don’t go posting all over social media what your doing, or telling a lot folks who don’t need to know, do what you gotta do in a humane manner and be done with it, once it’s done it’s done and if they don’t catch you in the act or have hard evidence of cruelty against you such as a video of you actually performing the branding then they have no leg to stand on...

Goose87 I agree that I believe it could be won in a court of law and I thought about contacting a lawyer and try and push the issue but in some cases I believe it is best to just leave a sleeping dog lye.  I even tried to explain to the person at the Dept of Ag that the reason I was wanting to do it was for a visual identification purpose and that I already have my dogs (most of them) microchipped but that is only good if they show up at a vet or the pound.  I wanted something so that if someone saw the dog and was thinking about steeling him the brand might would make them think twice about it.  They cannot see the microchip in the dog you know.  I also hunt in the national forest and there are a lot of people from all over the state and from AL and GA that hunt down there and I have never lost a dog to theft in 40 years but you just never know.  I did have to run a truck down one time back when we had beep beeps and take my dog out of the mans box, he said oh I was going to bring him to you, REALLY???

I try to abide by the rules, I take very good care of my dogs and I spend a lot of money doing so, just ask my vets that see my dogs.  I take pride in being able to control my dogs and I call them off hogs all of the time due to not having permission on some properties and that is how I get to hunt a lot of land that I hunt is because I can and do stop my dog at the property line and the land owners have seen it first hand and will tell you they just cannot believe it.  I was wanting to register my brand with the state so that I was following all of the rules but I could tell that I was talking with a person in Tallahassee that had no clue about the hunting or cattle world so I thought is was best to just try and remove myself from the conversation.  I live in a rural part of FL and outside of a very small town so I shouldn't have any issues but I don't want or need the doggie police coming around my place snooping around. 

I just wanted to through this bit of info out there so that I know a lot of people put stuff on FB and that would be a huge no no.  I would love to post pictures of my hunts but honestly I don't post anything on FB very often just for this reason.  I don't want people knowing my business.  If I post a picture of a hunting trip I always cut the hog out of the picture. 

[Black Streak]

Once SPCA confiscates your dogs, no amount of common sense argument, laws in your favor or rights will get your dogs back.    I've read and spoke to a couple people who have been so frustrated for months going on multiple years using the laws and common sense to fight for their dogs to be returned.      No such luck so they take their grievance to the public and start exposing the spca to the public and who ever will listen.        You will be informed of stuff like one of your dogs mysteriously died.    You request and try to pay for autopsy which is forcefully denied.      Next dog dies because it got in a fight with another dog.     Next the other dog is deemed mentally unfit for human interaction and the other dog is deemed not fit to be around other dogs so must be put down.    They won't let you see the dogs.   If court does grant you visitation permission, what you find is your dogs are in poor health and void of the mentally bright spark they once had.      After months in spca "care" speed, malnurishment, and mental withdrawenness have taken over your dogs.   They use this as proof you are a bad dog owner when they are the ones that did that to your dogs.             I promis you, common sense, rights, and laws only give you false hope if your chances of getting dogs back.      In short, if you allow them to take them or that take them from you without your knowledge either one, you have no rights.            This scenario is not one I made up and is not limited to a particular area.   It has happened many times to good people and good responsible dog owners.   
            I'll say no more and leave you with this sincere warning. 

[WayOutWest]

Dean, as someone who has fought BSL for 30 years you are unfortunately right. They seize the dogs and tell you you need to come up with 10's of thousands of dollars to pay for their care while you drag through the court system.  It's a horrible no win system.

[rdjustham]

Chipolariverman:

If you read the statue animal cruelty is a 1st degree misdemeanor in Fl.  In order for an arrest to be made in Fl on a misdemeanor it needs to occur in the presence of a law enforcement officer.  There are a few Misdemeanor Exceptions to this, however I can tell you this aint one of them.  Just an FYI.

[Goose87]

I completely understand your frustration, local hunter here that I’m friends with had his yard taken, not going into the specifics but it’s cost him everything, there’s other ways around having to register a brand with the state of Fla as to not throw a target on yourself and have someone looking over your fence, look into getting your brand trade marked and copyrighted, that’s two different things and even more coverage, once that’s done brand your dogs and go on hunting, in the event it is an ever an issue with anyone throw them off your trail and just tell them you had a vet in Texas or La or a state where’s it legal, perform the proper procedure prior to purchase....

[Goose87]

Or if you don’t want to deal with the aggravation of any of it make you a stencil of your brand and dye or bleach their hair just prior to season and it will last all season long

[Black Streak]

Dean, as someone who has fought BSL for 30 years you are unfortunately right. They seize the dogs and tell you you need to come up with 10's of thousands of dollars to pay for their care while you drag through the court system.  It's a horrible no win system.

    Yep.   Fortunately I have never had to deal with this first hand, I have only discovered others who have taken their grievances and frustrations to the public and taken an interest in them.      The ones I've researched all have similar story line.    All did nothing wrong and where there were allegations made against the owners, the allegations were easily proven false.            The owners reluctantly allowed there dogs to be taken or were taken by force or even without their knowledge.   All assumed misunderstanding and assumed they could easily get the dogs back.       No arrest or chargers or fines were presented to the owners.  Just a confiscation of the dogs from what I can remember in each intense though I might be wrong here in some of the instances.       
     The guys can do what ever they want, I'm just trying to provide insight as to the intity that the spca is.       I don't think they are getting the gist of what I'm trying to describe for they seem to think if we can't do it one way, then we can do not another way.    I think the big picture is being overlooked by these guys.     Staying off the spca radar is key.  You don't want to have to explain nothing in defense of your dogs.     They are a marked dog be it legal or not and it can ignite a fire and emotion in them and once that's done, the heartache, regret, and other emotions soon set in.         
    To many reading this, these stories I refer to are just stories.   The message and warning will not affect them or touch them in a way that has much significance.     What will though is when a member of this community on here becomes one of them and starts giving us a weekly and frustrated first hand account of the same stories I speak of

[chipolariverman]

Black Streak I agree a 100%, "Staying off the spca radar is key."
That is why when I was told it was illegal I said "Oh ok, never mind then".

I am not going to pursue it  any further.  I just wanted to through my little bit of information out there in an attempt to keep someone else off the radar.

[Black Streak]

Black Streak I agree a 100%, "Staying off the spca radar is key."
That is why when I was told it was illegal I said "Oh ok, never mind then".

I am not going to pursue it  any further.  I just wanted to through my little bit of information out there in an attempt to keep someone else off the radar.

    That's great news.     
  It's really sad that we are not protected by the law and common sense against agencies like this.   I really wanted to stress the true nature of this agency and the depth of the curruption that lay behind the mask this intity wears and portrays to the public.     This isn't limited to America, this same level of curruption is in many other countries.    First time this agency come to my attention in such a manner was in Great Britain.     The mask described in what I was reading mirrored the same image portrayed here in the US.    So I started looking here and it didn't take long to realize this was a global problem.   They have a good face, seem to be  just in what they do but there is a monster within that does not like our kind of people and always has the backing of the judicial system and more, no matter what country.     
    I'm glad this was brought up so we could shed some useful information to those on here.   For knowledge is power and knowing what this agency does behind the mask is very useful information to all on here I hope