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Stanton
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2019, 01:49:43 pm » |
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PM sent
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Scott
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2019, 04:34:13 pm » |
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It takes more than just crossing two dogs to make a “bloodline”. The vast majority have no clue of what a specific “bloodline” entails.
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Bowtech99
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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2019, 04:52:53 pm » |
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Mike with that being said do you think that if someone got a pup off your dogs and a pup off some dogs down the road and cross them that you would consider them that persons "bloodline"? I feel there is alot of this "thats my bloodline " of dogs going around just because they've bred a pair of dogs.
Eh, a bloodline has to start somewhere. A pair of dogs, usually unrelated, worked great whether hunting, stock dogs, etc... bred, then line bred for several generations. I consider if you line bred 3 generations you could call it your bloodline for those specific dogs. I guess I'm not one of those folk that take it seriously, most of the time if I hear that's your bloodline, it just means you've bred your specific type if dogs on your yard for years. Some fellas think if you cant trace your dogs back 25+yrs then dont say the word bloodline. I say, dump the box and lets go hunting. |
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Bigdog
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What do u guys think the best cross is a n line breeding. And what do u think about a Half brother to half sister.
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Mike
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Bigdog, I’ve always heard that half brother/ half sister crosses produce some good ones. I’m hoping to make that cross this coming year.
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HIGHWATER KENNELS
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Bigdog, I’ve always heard that half brother/ half sister crosses produce some good ones. I’m hoping to make that cross this coming year.
This will be my next one Mike,,, I am anxious to see if it works like some of the old timers tell me it has in the past. I should be able to try it come this fall.. |
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Hoghunters do it deeper in the bush.
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The Old Man
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I have used the half brother sister cross on numerous occasions and had good results. It will often breed stronger to the common relative than his or her own sons and daughters, especially if the common relative didn't produce as good of percentages as you had expected when bred directly.
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Reuben
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Breed the offspring of the half brother x sister cross back to the side of the common relative...the common relative is common because we all should breed to the best side...at least the side we perceive to be the best...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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TAPOUT YOUNG
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I HAVE DONE HALF BROTHER HALF SISTER CROSS 3 TIMES . ALL THREE TIMES I HAVE TWO THAT MAKE REAL NICE DOGS . THE REST ARE CULLS IN MY BOOK . I WAS WONDERING HOW IT TURNED OUT FOR YALL PERCENTAGE WISE. ALL DOGS IN MY KENNEL ARE RELATED . I HAVE BEEN BREEDING THEM FOR 12 YEARS . JUST DID A OUT CROSS TO BREED BACK IN.
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Goose87
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Got a pair of males at two different yards off a half brother half sister cross with the dame of the pair being their common ancestor but the sires to both of the parents were littermate brothers, so it’s a half sibling/first cousin cross that should make some really nice dogs, they are 11 months old now, one is going to be hunted and the other used on cattle, I’m expecting pups any minute now out of the same mother as the two 11 month old males bred to another first cousin whose sire is also a littermate brother to the grandsires of my 2 11 month old males, I’m concentrating on a certain cross that clicked real good and had 100% litter turn over rate that all made well above average dogs and average to great reproducers of themselves, got my fingers crossed everything goes as close to as planned as possible these next 2-3 years...
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Reuben
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Got a pair of males at two different yards off a half brother half sister cross with the dame of the pair being their common ancestor but the sires to both of the parents were littermate brothers, so it’s a half sibling/first cousin cross that should make some really nice dogs, they are 11 months old now, one is going to be hunted and the other used on cattle, I’m expecting pups any minute now out of the same mother as the two 11 month old males bred to another first cousin whose sire is also a littermate brother to the grandsires of my 2 11 month old males, I’m concentrating on a certain cross that clicked real good and had 100% litter turn over rate that all made well above average dogs and average to great reproducers of themselves, got my fingers crossed everything goes as close to as planned as possible these next 2-3 years...
I bred this way for 20 years with high success rate... One of the worst things I’ve done is start over...been through a truck load of culls to get decent dogs...the dogs I have now are pretty fair maybe not as consistent as I want but have had good pups... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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Here’s two scenarios...
Starting out with good dogs from good to great bloodlines and the first generation one can select for a few excellent pups...within 3 generations we can have a high percentage of excellent dogs and it can be done in less than five years...
The two things one must do in my opinion...
1. Breed the very best within the family...
2. Just as important as number 1, select the very best pups to hunt and breed...to find out the best is through testing and observing...put the pups through a scenario and then analyze what was seen...at least keep 4 pups and then cull down to two pups if keeping one...it gets to the point that all 4 are good and that gives you more options...
Second scenario...
Starting out with scatter bred dogs will be a challenge...
Meaning there will be lots of variation in the pups...
Takes longer to establish your line...
And, our idea of a great dog is not the same as other dog breeders standards...
So...the second scenario can really suck...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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t-dog
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I tell y'all something I've seen over the years. It's natural and common sense to a degree. Say I have two full brothers or two full sisters and one is exceptional and the other is a good dog but just not quite the dog the other is be it build, performance, etc. Everyone is gonna want to breed that exceptional one, and they should. BUT, I've seen too many times when the lesser of the two was actually the better producer. I've seen it in dogs, game chickens, and even homing pigeons and horses. Don't be too quick to discard or shy away from the lesser dog. If they are a cull then by all means don't breed it. You have to breed to dogs that are out of consistent, high percentage litters. One good or great dog out of a litter, no matter how great it is, isn't worth breeding to if all the litter mates are sub par. The odds are stacked against you and the odds of that great dog reproducing itself are extremely low. This is in scatter bred dogs and tight bred dogs alike.
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Austesus
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T-Dog, that’s exactly what I’m doing when my older female comes in heat. She’s a littermate to my old Dum Dum dog. He was the best dog I’ve had and I planned to start my line off of him. He was one of 3 litters out of the same two dogs and every single puppy out of those 3 litters made a dog. There was one dog out of all of them that was semi open. All the others were 100% silent and straight catch. All but 3 of them have now been killed. There are a few people that bred off of them, but not in to the family and was a wasted opportunity in my opinion. Around me nobody line breeds or really understands it. Everybody takes a good dog to another good dog, then takes a puppy to another good dog that’s unrelated, and so on and so on. Since I first got my hands on that line I’ve wanted to use it as a foundation for my own dogs.
I never considered breeding the female because she wasn’t nearly the dog her brother was. She used to be a really good dog and then got to the point where she was more of a help dog. She would let her brother strike the track and then she would run with him. Very rarely will she strike first. But I have one female that’s off of her and my dead catch dogs littermate brother. I can’t judge the success of the whole litter because it was an accidental litter when I was overseas and my uncle was keeping her. He had drug issues and I later found out wasn’t taking good care of her or the puppies and all but the one I have died. The one I have is hell on wheels when it comes to a RCD. So I believe that this older female will actually throw puppies that are better than herself, and I believe that they will be very high percentage litters based on other dogs from that blood.
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Trying to raise better dogs than yesterday.
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Reuben
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I tell y'all something I've seen over the years. It's natural and common sense to a degree. Say I have two full brothers or two full sisters and one is exceptional and the other is a good dog but just not quite the dog the other is be it build, performance, etc. Everyone is gonna want to breed that exceptional one, and they should. BUT, I've seen too many times when the lesser of the two was actually the better producer. I've seen it in dogs, game chickens, and even homing pigeons and horses. Don't be too quick to discard or shy away from the lesser dog. If they are a cull then by all means don't breed it. You have to breed to dogs that are out of consistent, high percentage litters. One good or great dog out of a litter, no matter how great it is, isn't worth breeding to if all the litter mates are sub par. The odds are stacked against you and the odds of that great dog reproducing itself are extremely low. This is in scatter bred dogs and tight bred dogs alike.
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T-dog...you are right in both ways...scatterbred has a higher probability of greater variation...line bred and inbred has a lot lower chance of variation...but a breeder must be consistent in what and how he breeds his dogs within the family... An extreme example of line breeding and inbreeding can include an English bulldog and BMC cross and that produces variation because of style of breeding within a family...that in my opinion gives it a bad name... When I bred my old line of Mt curs they were tight bred and I only bred the very best within the family and the dogs hunted harder, faster and became grittier as more generations were produced... I once bred to a smaller gyp that tested pretty good as a pup...she consistently rolled out alone as a 3-4 month old pup so I kept her...she was a lighter cream color and was not going to be over 37 pounds or so when grown...so a friend needed a strike dog and I gave her away at 6 or so months old...when I dropped her off we made a hunt and right off she treed a coon and went on to make a good dog... I lost my main female so I called my buddy and it just so happens he had to stop hunting on account of personal issues...I pick her up and breed her to her grandfather...the smallest puppy, a female reached 45 pounds and was heck on wheels...I kept her on account she looked to be perfect in every way...maybe too much hunt and no quit And grit to spare...I bred her to her father who was also her grandfather...the pups produced were pretty awesome...but too much grit in my opinion... I tried to only breed the very best but my logic told me that that little female wasn’t my cup of tea but...everything inside of her was...there was never any doubt about that... Outcrossing would have been my last option... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Slim9797
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Fixing to start this fall working towards my own family of dogs. The line I’ve been focused on trying to revive the last 3 years, died with my pearl and boo dogs this year. That strain of leopard is gone. Luckily, I have a breeding pair of what I believe is a female that’s ALMOST everything I want a dog to be, and has proven she can raise a litter of pups, and she can pass her genes on at a high percentage(1 litter). And a Male that isn’t too far off of her. They are both products of relatively tight bred dogs. though from entirely different families of dogs, they are similar in almost any way you could compare them, the female is just a tick above him in most skills. I’m after stock sense, and a sharp mind above all else.
To the guys like Cajun and Mike and Thomas(I know there’s plenty more of y’all on here) that have something that they can really say is theirs, they have the dogs they set out to have and create years ago. I probably respect that above all else in the dog game. Cause for as many “big time hog hunters” as I know, must of em ain’t got anything I’d own. And the few that do, usually got nothing more to do with them dogs than being lucky enough to own em.
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We run dillo dogs that trash on hogs
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t-dog
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Man slim I hope you have better luck with the next litter. I really thought you had it going your way once you managed to get them grown. Reuben, I have what I call to sides to the little family of dogs I hunt. One gyp in the pedigree is really what the difference in the two sides is on paper. But, there is just a little difference in them even though they are about 95% or better identical in every way. Depending on what I want to increase on or decrease as to who I breed to who. Originally, one old male was what I was trying to duplicate. I've always appreciated being able to look at an animal a see that it was out of a certain line, be it dogs, horses, or chickens. The consistency says that the breeder at least had some sort of standard, the eye to see it, and the ability to produce it. Over the years I've I allowed myself to breed myself into a corner with my family of catch dogs by not producing enough of them. Trying to find and out source to help revive it has been a challenge to say the least. I might find a specimen that I really like in most every way, but when I probe a little deeper, there's no consistency. One is short and stumpy while one is tall and rangy, one is layed back and the next is a crack head. To me this says the line isn't very concentrated or the breeder doesn't have a standard or goal in mind. Even if the dogs are full blood this or that, breeding dogs out of that sort of thing is like breeding cross breeds. Uniformity is more than just cosmetic.
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Reuben
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10-4 on that...I do believe you and I see it about the same way...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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