Need Advice ASAP

[Austesus]

Long story short last night went about as bad as it can. Went to a property to clean roads up with the trimmers and kicked out my two pups and an older dog. I was easing through the property letting them run the road and my male pup got caught up under the wheel. I was barely moving when it happened so I backed up real quick and he got up and was trotting still, but limping.

Older dog struck a track and the male pup only went 150yds and stopped so I picked him up and decided to get him to the vet. The older dog wouldn’t come off the pig and 1.5 hours later she hit the paved road and I tried to get her and seconds before I stopped she got hit. Not gonna go in to detail on the forum but she was bad off and I had to put her down on the spot. Got to the house and swapped vehicles and rushed Hopper to the vet.

Only one place open right now, they did an exam and said there was no internal damage and that he felt fine. I requested an X-ray of his hips since that’s where the wheel was on top of him and they did it and came back and said both hips are partially out of place. They called it later luxation of the hips. Said they wouldn’t do anything until a surgeon consultation on Monday at 11am. They wouldn’t even attempt to pop them back in. Now I’ve got multiple people telling me that the longer they’re out is gonna increase scar tissue and permanent damage. I’ve been trying to call everyone I can think of to get ahold of a vet to talk to and get something done with no luck yet.

Have any of you dealt with this? This pup has been on fire and I think he will be the best dog to come up on my yard, he’s my male I got from Justin. If he’s crippled he will be used for breeding, but I really don’t want to lose him for hunting, he’s been doing awesome and this was a huge blow, on top of having the older dog killed at the same time


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[Austesus]

*lateral luxation*


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[The Old Man]

I can't be any help at all on lateral luxation, and am sorry about your tough luck.     That is just one of the reasons I don't road my dogs, even though it has been a much used and acceptable practice for a long time.

[Austesus]

I’ve only ever roaded them one time, and it was a few weeks on a side by side. I was actually thinking how good they were doing yesterday right before that happened. Just a whole load of bad luck I suppose


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[t-dog]

Dang I hate to hear that bud. I gotta say that I also have been told that the longer its displaced the worse off and harder it is to overcome. I wish you luck

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[Austesus]

Got him looked at by my normal vet this morning. Good and bad news. He believes that the hips were already displaced and thinks that he has hip displaysia. In his opinion getting hit with the truck just did soft tissue damage and he said that looking at the X-rays popping them in won’t do any good as they’d just come back out. Only other option would be extremely costly surgery that would prevent him from hunting again.

The decision was made to keep him put up for around 6 months with hopes that his soft tissue can fully heal and he may recover to what was normal for him, even if the hips were already out of place. He’s been doing great, so I am leaning towards breeding him once he heals up some and then just watching and culling puppies carefully in an attempt to get rid of any hip displaysia in the genetics


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[Cajun]

  If he is showing any sign of Hip Displaysia I would not use him in any breeding. JMO  One, he is not a finished dog but two Hip displaysia would be hard to get rid of and even if you x ray future pups and they are clean, they could still carry the gene.

[BA-IV]

  If he is showing any sign of Hip Displaysia I would not use him in any breeding. JMO  One, he is not a finished dog but two Hip displaysia would be hard to get rid of and even if you x ray future pups and they are clean, they could still carry the gene.

This right here...you’ll get 7-8 years down the road and kick yourself for breeding him and the headaches it’s gonna cause you.  It’s easy to say coming from someone that isn’t in your position, BUT I’ve started over after letting my old dogs die off and not breeding my good dogs and them getting killed. It’s always worked itself out. It’s a marathon when it comes to dogs, not a sprint!

[Austesus]

10-4, I thought it would be something that could easily be culled out with careful selection of the pups. I have a littermate sister of his, I’m going to have her looked at soon to see if she shows any signs of having it


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[l.h.cracker]

Was the dog showing any signs of hip dysplasia prior to you running him over?Does Justin's line have a history of hip dysplasia?Was the breeding that made this young dog extremely tight like litter mates brother and sister or was this a breeding that has been done before?Because if there is no history hip dysplasia and the breeding wasn't extremely tight I wouldn't consider it hip dysplasia that just happened to show up after you ran him over.It sounds like you should get a second opinion and not pass the blame off on hip dysplasia when you ran the dog over.

If it for some crazy coincidental reason hip dysplasia that just so happened to show up after running him over than you cannot cull it out of the genes many times it doesn't show up until adulthood and many times later but if Justin's dogs don't have a history of hip dysplasia I highly doubt that's what it is The dog was ran over.

[Austesus]

The dog had a slightly different gait than normal but nothing I would consider crazy. I just thought that it was due to a line of dogs I haven’t had much time around having their own characteristics. He hasn’t expressed any pain or any difficulty hunting and I’ve been running him a lot lately, he’s probably done 200 miles in the past 2-3 weeks and never showed a problem. The vet I took him to is a vet that I do trust and value his opinion, but he also made a distinction that it was just a guess and there’s no way to prove what he thought. His reasons for thinking this were that the dog doesn’t seem to express the pain that he should based on the X-rays, even when doing mobility test.

I talked to Justin earlier and he said that he has culled only 3-4 dogs for hip/running issues and that has been over the course of more than 13 years. His dogs are tight bred but this litter was an outcross. My thoughts were that I can breed him, and then instead of doubling up on him like I originally planned, I can take the pup off that litter to another dog with no issues and breed away from any apparent hip issues. They’re very rough dogs and honestly most probably wouldn’t make it long enough to where they would really experience issues from any hip problems. From my understanding dysplasia is something that is only really a problem in dogs once they get older. I honestly don’t expect my dogs to make it to 10 years old, just due to the nature of rough dogs.

Obviously I don’t want to breed a bad issue in to the dogs, but I’m not 100% that it did or didn’t exist before the accident, and was hopefully that even if it did I could just monitor pups until they were a year or two old for any problems and cull accordingly, and that after 1-2 generations the problem would be gone. I don’t have many dogs to work with which is also a factor. If I had multiple males that I thought I could use for a breeding program I would probably steer away from him but at this point the only other male dog I have left is a cur that’s unrelated, and from good blood with good littermates but he’s almost 4 and I never really gave him a chance because he was opening up and I was running silent dogs


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[t-dog]

It does sound like the potential for HD is there. If this is a recessive gene then it is gonna show up when 2 dogs that have it are bred together, that's how it normally works anyway. If you breed him, even if his pups don't show signs of it, they likely still carry that gene and it likely, as with most bad traits, will rear its ugly head at the most inopportune time. Once you put something bad there its forever. If you accept it now then you are accepting it forever. This dog may be the most extreme case or he might be the most minor case or anywhere in between. You may get less of it by selective breeding but it will be there. That's ANY bad trait not just HD. Myself, I can't afford to run a retirement home for broken down dogs and I sure have a hard time putting one down that was good at its job and did things right. Justin obviously has good dogs. It's understandable to want to breed that way if they suit you. You've had a tough go these last few months for sure, but if you aren't careful your entire hunting dog career is going to be more of the same. Just my opinion of course, I am not trying to knock Justin or his bloodline. He catches too many hogs not to be doing something right. As with any family of dogs though, you gotta figure out all the strengths and weaknesses and expect more weaknesses to surface the tighter things get because there are just too many things that can't be seen. That's the nature of the beast. Good luck

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[ROCKIN ROO HOG DOGS]

I ran my good cowdog pup over woth tractor tire in October , knew something was wrong after first day , asked vet to look at it on screen with floroscope and sure enough the hip was out of its socket, he popped it back in , 2 days later it came out just resting in the kenell , vet said the more days go by the more scar tissue and inflammation will make it pop out and not stay in , I insisted he try again , heard a loud pop and checked with floroscope and it was in place , 2 weeks of kennel rest and He has never looked back, he was about 9 or 10 months when it happened , now at about 14 months and would never know he ever had a wreck and is a tough head dog been rolled plenty of times and no issues , if they got them back in place for you I think the youth of the joints are on your side , let him heal and rest properly and he should be good for years to come

[justincorbell]

Just saw this, I'm actually on my way to the woods as I type. When I get some time I'll read everything and add my 2 cents

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[Austesus]

T-dog, in your opinion, can you never get rid of a bad trait with selective and careful breeding? As you may known I haven’t ever really gotten in to breeding yet because as I came close dogs have died and I’ve been set back. My thinking was to just breed it out of the genes?

Rockin, the vet did not put the hip back in place. The ER vet I went to wouldn’t do anything without their surgeon looking at him. When my vet opened Monday morning I took him up there and my vet said that in his opinion popping them back in would not do anything based on the X-rays. He said that he thought the joint was good enough and that popping them back in wouldn’t last and that they’d just come right back out and be more of a problem. There are quite a few vets that I listen to with a grain of salt, this vet on the other hand has known my family for years and will tell me his honest opinion. With that being said, it is his opinion, but he is an experienced vet and typically knows what he’s talking about. I can’t figure out how to post a video here or I’d post a clip of the dog running around some a few months back so y’all could see his movements.

All of this has been a huge set back. I’ve had dogs dying faster than I can replace them. At this rate this dog was going I planned on using him to really get started breeding. I do have a littermate sister of his and I plan to have her X-rayed now to see what her hips look like. But if she’s good the only male i have to breed her with is the older cur and I don’t think they would match up well. My only other option is throwing that cur to my old Dum Dum dogs sister (this is who I wanted to breed the male pup too, and she is the half sister of this other cur) and then taking a male from that back to the female littermate I have of this male that got injured. This may be a good cross but the father of the cur, Scooter, and the female, Mine, was a long range open dog that wouldn’t put teeth on a pig. Scooter is grittier as his momma was a shorter range gritty cur, and he’s semi open. The female, Mine, is silent and straight catch (her momma was a nice pit that was a true hot blood game dog). I worry that if I double up on the father, the pups are gonna lose grit and come out open


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[Austesus]

Just saw this, I'm actually on my way to the woods as I type. When I get some time I'll read everything and add my 2 cents

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Looking forward to it, good luck buddy


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[Reuben]

There are a few things I will overlook when breeding dogs...hip displasia is not one of them...that is a serious fault and is hereditary...there are lines of dogs that 25 percent will have it...and many are carriers...the bad thing about carriers is that two dogs that do not display the fault can be bred and still produce pups with the fault and others will be carriers...not worth the pain or time invested...

The good news is he could be hunted depending on how bad it gets...if he doesn’t show any signs check for displasia in a year...

Dogs with displasia tend to pull more with their front ends and don’t drive as hard with their rear wheels...

Good luck with your young dog...hopefully it’s due to the accident...

[CalebKirkland]

I will start by saying that it takes a high level of bad luck to get two dogs run over at separate times in one night. I know you were sick.

As far as the dog that made it. I personally would use him for hunting and stay away from breeding him even though it’s questionable if the hip problem was pre existing. If you and Justin are close I imagine y’all could work a deal on a different male pup that isn’t from that outcross just to be safe. Like others have said problems end up showing up years down the road that make you regret the decisions that you made because you were either in a hurry or felt you didn’t  have any other options.

[Goose87]

See if you can get your hands on some dexamethasone it’s great for instances like this to help with the chronic inflammation...

[justincorbell]

Alright, to give some more information regarding this pup. First, I have been hunting with the sires line for over a decade, out of the probably 50+ dogs I know of out of this line (not all mine) I cannot recall any having hip dysplasia BUT having said that i personally have not had too many of my personal dogs last past 6-7years old so for all I know they very well could be carriers, luckily I have not had issue with it. I've had a 2 pups over the years that came out bowlegged and fonky but I believe it was due to breeding a bit too tight.

One thing I do find interesting is that I actually culled his littermate brother a couple months back due to issues he had in his hind end, I don't believe it was hip dysplasia I believe he had an issue with his muscles. He had no rear end at all, front end was much wider than the rear. I liked him alot, little dog had alot of heart and want to but he couldn't keep up with any of my other dogs...... These could very well be related but just based off the pictures I have seen of Hopper I doubt it.

Also this was a 100% unrelated cross, a couple years back i was given a little orange curr/bird dog cross gyp that I started hunting, I ended up really liking her and decided to see what would happen. The little female I have has far exceeded my expectations, they are just turning a year old now and she has been doing very well in my eyes. Quickly turning into a nice reliable little dog, and she is easy on the eyes to top it off haha.


There are tons of what ifs at this point in the game. My thinking is this, before breeding is even thought about sit back and let it run its course. Kennel him for 3-4 months and see if he heals, if he does and he continues to improve both physically as well as in the woods THEN start looking at the possibility of breeding.

And Austin, I know how hard you are trying to stay on track but sometimes you derail....its happened to me more than once over the years.... Don't sweat it, put him up and wait it out, I will have a couple fresh batches by July at the latest.... Im sure a couple wouldn't mind living in SC lol.

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