Our Best…

[Reuben]

You can secretly know you have the best…you don’t say it because you don’t want to brag…Northstar said something along those lines and I felt the same way at one time…
I once had a once in a lifetime dog in over the 55 years of messing with dogs…I’ve had quite a few that I thought were unbeatable…

Some of my very best looked calm with almost no heartbeat until unleashed in the woods…the others weren’t hyper…I do not like hyper in a dog…

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

You can say that again for me man.  I hate a hyper dog.  They don’t learn as quick to me.  I like the kind that is lookin in my eyes when I’m talkin to em.


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[t-dog]

That’s the same type I like highwater. Another thing I think they lack or don’t have as much of as the calm dog is stamina. I think they burn off or waste too much energy. They usually require twice as much feed. I’ve had some dogs I was really proud of, even now. Do I think they are the greatest…no! I have known for MANY years what style of dog I like and what characteristics they possessed. I have hunted with a bunch of good dogs over the years and a handful that I considered great. I owned one that I thought was great. It’s between him and another male for the spot. It would be nip and tuck between them. I wish that I would’ve been able to measure them against each other. I like to hunt with people that are reputable with reputable dogs. It’s not for bragging rights but for a measuring tool. You can see how your dogs measure up and if they have a hole in their game maybe it’s easier to see. One hunt doesn’t usually answer those type questions but 4 or 5 hunts will give you an idea. My dog that I thought was great, I hunted with many other dogs that were very highly thought of. I was NEVER disappointed in him and ALWAYS pulled his weight. He was the same dog solo as he was in the company of other really good dogs. I hunted him in all types of country and terrain and he was the same dog. I didn’t brag on him because his actions spoke for themselves. Dogs like him are the reason I hog hunt today. They’re almost magical and inventive in the things they do. I loved that dog and he loved me. If I left town for a couple of days for work, he wouldn’t eat. When I would turn off the highway a mile from the house, the wife would say she knew I was close because he would start raising he$$, because otherwise he was as quiet as a church mouse. He would eat that evening and the next morning it was game on. There is a way to speak highly and proud of your animals and even family and remain humble. I think a person should be or they shouldn’t be feeding them. To me greatness is in the eye of the beholder. I know people that hunted with my old dog that didn’t like him as much. He hunted as close or as deep as he needed to to find hogs, they liked short range. He rolled over super fast and would bay another hog as long as there were more or you would let him, they wanted to catch a couple and be done. So some of what I like others don’t.


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[Muddy-N-Bloody]

Being I’m waiting on my wife to get ready like normal I’d like to get in on this - first of all I know what I like but also like considering others strong points and use it to my advantage in dogs - I agree on the hyperness- don’t want it -  as far as bragging I always heard anything that will eat crap and breed their ma will make a liar out of you so don’t brag to much lol
My best= dogs smarter than me - or natural hog dogs
My best was and is this and all they needed was a ride to the woods - I’m no dog man by no means but love hunting them
She done I’m headed to the river now
Happy 4th y’all b careful


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[t-dog]

Lol
I like that Muddy. We are headed out too. Headed to the big puddle the river feeds into. Happy fourth y’all!


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[Judge peel]

I have had them both ways. The calm ones do tend to make a better dogs but don’t mean a hyper one can’t. As a rule they most of the time don’t. I have had a few bird dogs that where hyper as all get out but where good bird dogs. 


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[make-em-squeel]

I have no problem bragging on my dogs, and talkin lots of trash while hunting  Kind of like playing dominoes with my buddies its just part of the fun. As kid rock said it aint bragging mo fo if you can back it up! lol

The opposite of that though, that I have always wondered, why some hunters make excuses for bad dogs and keep feeding them well after they have been given a fair chance to make, when I get a bad dog I dont take it personal I just replace it! Seems like some hunters lye about dogs like it reflects them personally. Some hog hunters can rival high school cheerleaders in regards to drama back stabbing etc

[t-dog]

Make-em-squeal I have come to the conclusion that I don’t think they are intentionally lying. I think they keep and feed poor quality because they don’t know the difference between good and bad. Most of those types have never experienced “real” dogs and their potential. They are usually the same ones that you can’t tell anything because they hog hunted one time and learned everything there is to know about it on that first trip. Everyone has different standards and what makes you or me happy might not make the next guy happy. Good is kinda like beauty, it’s all according to the eye of the beholder. These know it all first timers usually have never owned even a house dog much less a working dog. 9 out of 10 times they are the ones you speak of with poor ethics too. They are exactly the ones that kill our sport and shed negative light on it. They don’t care if it gets ruined. They will do something else and ruin it. It’s a macho fad to the biggest percentage of them, not a way of life or a passion, and the history nor the future of it means squat to them.


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[make-em-squeel]

well said t-dog. Ive seen it with both strike and catch dogs but it really blows my mind when a CD clearly lets go over and over and they keep it. Thats dangerous imo. Again maybe the reason my buddies and I rag on each other and our dogs in a sporting way is bc we all know this is our hobby, it doesnt define the man I am, thankfully Jesus does that. I only want to feed good dogs but when I get a cull I dont take it personal I replace it lol.

I just gave a decent little help dog to a cow guy who loves her after she didnt turn on for a friend, bc she would not hunt in big loops unless she was wih her mom like most of her line does, she would take a track, honor a bay and bay all day without getting cut but I consider that a help dog so shes baying cattle and doing a good job last i heard... but that is whats hard when there not a bad dog there just not what were breeding for and it took me 2 falls of hunting her to figure it out around 20 mo old.

[chestonmcdowell]

Yeah my bird dog is like a crackhead built like one too. But he's got the hunt.  I have a question not to jack the thread but do yall have a rule for hunting after a heavy rain. Only seems like my hounds can push a track if it rained the day before and they're really slowly grinding on it. My curs act like its nonexistent.

[t-dog]

Yeah my bird dog is like a crackhead built like one too. But he's got the hunt.  I have a question not to jack the thread but do yall have a rule for hunting after a heavy rain. Only seems like my hounds can push a track if it rained the day before and they're really slowly grinding on it. My curs act like its nonexistent.

Sounds like those tracks are cold or got rained on enough to wash them out. Moisture is usually in a dogs favor unless it’s in abundance. Hounds will typically try to grind out what they can smell but a majority of curs I would say, prefer hot tracks so even when they can smell a cold track some, they will ignore it in hopes of finding something hotter. 100% there are some dogs that have colder noses, but over the years I’ve come to believe that want to and determination have nearly as much to do with how cold a track a dog will work. That’s just my opinion.


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[l.h.cracker]

T-dog I agree 100% I was just having this conversation with my buddy yesterday and I was telling him that I believe you can force a cur dog down a cold track and that I do it if that's what I have to work with I actually read on here along time ago how to do it and I believe it was BA-IV who was saying that he forced his curs to cold trail but I could be mistaking.Either way I will follow a track as far as I can see it which alot of times isn't very far where I hunt and then I stop I don't talk to my dogs other than sending them down it once or twice if they come back I just sit there sometimes I sit in one spot for a hr quietly and watch the dogs and the Garmin eventually they'll trail it because I am not giving them anything else to work with.Like T-dog said if they have the want to then they'll work it out you just have to give em time.I enjoy forcing them down a track they don't want to try but it takes alot of patience to just sit back open a cold drink and wait.

[BA-IV]

T-dog I agree 100% I was just having this conversation with my buddy yesterday and I was telling him that I believe you can force a cur dog down a cold track and that I do it if that's what I have to work with I actually read on here along time ago how to do it and I believe it was BA-IV who was saying that he forced his curs to cold trail but I could be mistaking.Either way I will follow a track as far as I can see it which alot of times isn't very far where I hunt and then I stop I don't talk to my dogs other than sending them down it once or twice if they come back I just sit there sometimes I sit in one spot for a hr quietly and watch the dogs and the Garmin eventually they'll trail it because I am not giving them anything else to work with.Like T-dog said if they have the want to then they'll work it out you just have to give em time.I enjoy forcing them down a track they don't want to try but it takes alot of patience to just sit back open a cold drink and wait.

Yeah you’re right. I use to do it a bunch simply cuz the leases I hunted was thin hogs and we didn’t have much choice. Made some of the best dogs I’ve ever hunted behind like that BUT you can’t train a lot of dogs like that. It’s usually a one dog gig. Put anything else down and a lot of times it breaks em off the track no matter how independent they are. It’s a slow process and I just don’t hardly do it like that anymore simply because I don’t hunt nearly hard enough and when I do, I wanna get a few more dogs some exposure.  There is a bunch of times I’ve wanted to kill everything I own because I find a big Barr track at 1-2 pm in the summer and nothing I own can move it, but that’s my fault. I haven’t trained em to or exposed em enough to do it with any regularity.

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

Ben.   U raising something now that’ll do it for u.   Lol.  And if they turn out like I think they will.  U can bring u some honey buns and sit on the bike and wait for em. They’ll do the rest. 


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[Muddy-N-Bloody]

Tdog i second the abundance
After a hard hard rain if you jump him at daylight may have a ruff time running him or even finding him - I had that issue just this am- jumped the hog at daylight and never run bay or anything like it pose to till done got hot and everything dried off

As far as pushing a dog not just cur down a cold track - I thought that what everyone had to do- that’s the only way I knew to hunt - push em til they get it figured out then back out - now obviously not all dogs can go like that but we all trying to feed the best we can and I want to feed dogs that I can push and they push me - good way to make dogs far as I see it - but I don’t know much either lol
I e said on here before I’ve learned more bout dogs from dogs than someone telling me


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[Muddy-N-Bloody]

Oh and highwater if you got any more of them sit and the truck and wait I’ll head that way lol


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[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

Oh and highwater if you got any more of them sit and the truck and wait I’ll head that way lol


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Lol.  Them is expensive to buy man.  I’m a poor man and won’t sell em.  Hehehe. 


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[Muddy-N-Bloody]

Yea I get that +
I don’t walk as much as I use to …. Lol


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[Goose87]

T-dog I agree 100% I was just having this conversation with my buddy yesterday and I was telling him that I believe you can force a cur dog down a cold track and that I do it if that's what I have to work with I actually read on here along time ago how to do it and I believe it was BA-IV who was saying that he forced his curs to cold trail but I could be mistaking.Either way I will follow a track as far as I can see it which alot of times isn't very far where I hunt and then I stop I don't talk to my dogs other than sending them down it once or twice if they come back I just sit there sometimes I sit in one spot for a hr quietly and watch the dogs and the Garmin eventually they'll trail it because I am not giving them anything else to work with.Like T-dog said if they have the want to then they'll work it out you just have to give em time.I enjoy forcing them down a track they don't want to try but it takes alot of patience to just sit back open a cold drink and wait.

 

This style takes individuals with PATIENCE, and the reason a lot of hunters can't or won't attempt it, I don't think this is true but believe it is and stand firmly behind this thought and belief all day long every day that it has more to do with a dogs desire to find the game that left the track they are smelling, my ex paw in law whom I got part my foundation of my curs dogs from always told me that that particular family of curs always had way better than average noses especially for cur dogs, I've seen them do some things and work some tracks out that even blew me away In their abilities alone and on the ground with or sent in behind some really good dogs themselves, one instance in particular I was past noon getting to a hunt one day and a pack of high power well known bear plott hounds from a state or two north of my location, had been hunting in there all morning and only Only 1 Hog had been caught all day and it was with a daughter to two of my curs and I was told that this blocks had been ran through and hunted out by the two packs of plotts, I trusted my dogs noses more than my friends observations and within an hr my old gyp, whom I hadn't hunted since the prior May and this being February, had one bayed and would eventually relay and bay another 4 more all within 3-4 hours in a section of swamp across the Rd from my house that my other buddy's bear hounds couldn't line a track out and keep it going for whatever reason, they are some great and very productive dogs, I've seen other instances before this that made me have this theory and saw it with both sides of my cur blood, both sides are built and bred around two outstanding females that I was blessed to own both at the same time, they are two totally different styles of dogs in every aspect, I also firmly believe in and have proven this with my own pack vs their litter mates and contemporaries owned by friends, I take one or two of my younger dogs that are showing all the right things and take them right by themselves at night and either send them in a block I know they'll hit a hog track or put them down on a track, and just let them be, a lot of times I'll fall asleep in the truck, I rarely bring a cd bc I have no intent on catching the hog, and if they put it all together and get one stopped and bayed, depending on the time I'll let them bay and work it a while or cause them to break and catch them off at a crossing and picking them up wanting it bad, a dog sees the world through his nose and when it's lights out they have to use their nose to be their guide, and by doing this I'm able to eliminate a lot of the distractions and deterrents that would normally grab a young dogs attention and focus, it's also been the deciding factor in some getting culled, bc if they can't perform at night at least to an average an above as they would in day light with other seasoned pack mates then they don't stay here, by doing that for the last 3-4 generations I've been able to select and breed for dogs that can put their minds to it and grub out a nasty track if needed to, I've tried and tried to explain this simple method to my friends early all of them say the same thing, "my dogs just don't perform or produce well at night, and those same ones also can't figure out why their dogs can't trail out a track past a certain window of time in which it was laid, the one or two that have listened have seen the benefit within a few hunts, I started doing this out of necessity bc of work and not by choice, I also noticed that my very first pack I ever put together got hunted nearly every night of the week and weekends and they just seem to bay a lot better so I tried baying my dogs now a bunch in a Bay pen bc I fooled with my old dogs every chance I could, didn't seem to help, when I started hunting them at night a few summers ago I noticed they started taking tracks in the day that were way colder than they would normally try and when they started putting game at them end of it I took a hard notice at what I was doing different and finally pen pointed that the night hunting was the key, just the other night my best friend and I were hunting some pups out of his old male and my old female, they are 1st cousins and I have yet to hunt behind a pair of cur dogs that can outdo them on a cold track, at least not around here, the pups just hit a yr on Father's Day and were in some god awful thick overgrowth, every time they'd bog down he'd get jumpy and want to put an old dog down, to "help them out", and I'd just say go ahead, send her in there to show them where it went and the next time after that and time after that when they bog down they'll just sit and wait for ol reliable to come and show them, or we can just sit here and let me enjoy my nap and listening to my young boooo tick run with his pups and let them figure out where they messed up and line it back out by themselves, that way they learn something and retain it bc they figured it out on their own and can apply it next time that situation is faced or get them dependent on a crutch that won't always be there to hold them up when they fall, it's taking him some self adjusting and developing patience on his end but this summer he has hunted his 3 at night a good bit and they are looking just as good and better than several dogs with a few seasons of hauling, I also watch my Garmin and see where the dogs either lost a track or had a bad break down they're having trouble recovering, it's not so much an issue with more seasoned dogs but more so with my young dogs, if they turn back and trail themselves back out I'll try to get to the point of the break down to see for myself what's going on and a lot of times entice and encourage them to grind it on out and get it back up on its feet at a brisk pace, if that becomes a habit for a particular dog then they won't stay here much longer, I'll talk to my dogs if I'm walking a hard track out with them but nothing like, cmere boy, or anything not business related, by the time they get to the woods they've already learned my basic verbal commands at home and I'll use them to keep the dog focused on what we're doing if I see track or sign of any off game or notice they're no longer following the track or scent funnel and are trying to take a path of least resistance, of course none of this can be accomplished if the hunter/handler has catching hogs or stacking numbers as his main objective, it takes an individual willing to devote the time and maintain the patience of biblical proportions to achieve the results and an eye for knowing when to pull the plug on a prospect and move on, next most important factor is having your hands on the hides that have the capabilities to work out and line out older tracks, it's just the way the world turns, some dogs have IT, and some dogs don't, once you've seen one do things that make you the one doing the observing say WOW, even if it's just to yourself bc your really not sure you just saw what you think you saw, you'll know it, one thing I've noticed and seen a correlation to trailing tough tracks at least in my dogs, is when they're young little pups is the ones who seem to be problem solvers and can find away out of pens built like Alcatraz, are seeming to make the better dogs that suit my liking, those are the two main most important factors to start with, there's also a number of other contributing smaller factors such as environmental and atmospheric conditions, the dogs physical shape, and how and what they're fed that all play small roles in scenting and trailing that when all combined all add up and can sway success in your favor or against you.....


I'll reply to the original post shortly lol, found a comment and paragraph that really always interest me....

[Reuben]

Goose87…I seen the same thing with some of the plotts…
I’ve done quite a bit of looking for a certain line known for their grit.
A while back I spoke with someone who hunts with the owner of that bloodline and also hunts that same line…so I asked how they hunted their bear dogs…they said almost always rigging or starting them from a bait…

Once I heard that I will not buy a pup because it does not fit my style…my number one priority is casting and finding…some of the Plott dogs are weak in casting and finding and I believe it is because of the hunting style I mentioned…

When we cast a dog in fresh sign I expect a dog to be running a track in less than five minutes…bayed or hearing a squeal…5 minutes is a long time…

The nose…I agree that a colder nose goes with the better hunting dog…but I differ on how it works but cannot prove it so it is a personal theory…

It applies to both winding or starting a colder track…there is a connection between the nose and the brain…some dogs trigger will trip very easily and others won’t…the gold nugget bred kemmer mountain curs can really wind or start a cold track but what I do like about them is they would rather start good tracks…

In open marsh I have seen none of the dogs get interested in the wind currents but one or two dogs…but it is not like blowing up the dog box interest…I just noticed a little interest…I looked to see exactly where the wind was coming from and turned into the wind…went close to a mile before I turned the dog loose and they went straight to the hogs…

I think the right Mt Cur line crossed with the right Plott line we produce Mt Cur type dogs from the old days…I believe back then there wasn’t much difference in the two…

Getting back to the nose…I’ve seen dogs come running by…two run right over a track and the switch doesn’t trip…a little later another dog comes by and opens a couple times and takes the track and lines it out…the same place the other dogs went right over…

Same thing with winding…if the scent is fairly strong in the wind they all can smell it and the trigger will trip but on a weaker scent the colder nosed dog might be the only dogs trigger that trips…and if it is a very weak scent it is up to the handler to set them up for success when one dogs shows little interest but doesn’t react…it is up to the handler to decide if it should be checked…

It’s all about what we do as breeders and handlers…we make the dogs better by how we breed and how  we hunt them…

When we test pups at a young age we can see which has the hair trigger for winding and also which pups have a knack for finding which proves 3 things…nose, ability to find and the right type of brain to go with the nose and finding ability…to me it is all about selecting for natural ability first…