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warrent423
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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2021, 07:50:00 pm » |
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Hammered my point home with that one big dawg  By the way, are you from where I am from. If so, how many generations deep are you in South/Central Florida. What, if any, first hand knowledge do you have of the Cur cow dogs that were "built" and bred in this part of the state of Florida. |
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Catchin hogs cracker style
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warrent423
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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2021, 08:25:17 pm » |
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Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, but not South/Central Florida. With all those Generations in the Deep South, how many, if any, old timey Florida Cowmen(Crackers), as we are called here, have you or your Kin discussed Cur Cow Dogs with.
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Semmes
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« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2021, 08:40:54 pm » |
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Anyone who wants can scroll back through your history and see what proof since 2010 on this board....
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Semmes
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« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2021, 08:50:20 pm » |
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You got some crossed ‘white English’ x catahoula Merle chow hounds that don’t look like they ever worked a day in their lives and bunch racist bs...
Thats your contributions, now prove it differently
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warrent423
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« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2021, 09:33:01 pm » |
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You got me with the whole human pedigree thing there big dawg. None of my people even smart enough to dig up and be able to post no sh#t like that, being the simple Cowmen and Commercial Fisherman we are. Did have some kin that rode drove and fought with The Confederate Cow Calvary though. You let me know when you get some "first hand knowledge" as to what was bred into the Cur Cow Dogs of my family and almost every other Old Florida Family around and below Lake Okeechobee And once again, you ever come across a line of dogs that look like my white "Sissy" dog, that have the natural desire to head and bunch cattle, you let me know. I'd like to take a look at them. I'm out son. |
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Catchin hogs cracker style
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Semmes
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« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2021, 09:40:51 pm » |
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Not your son... just call me daddy...pimp
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Semmes
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« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2021, 09:43:05 pm » |
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‘Edit’,... gimp
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Semmes
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« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2021, 09:57:43 pm » |
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Got to forgive me.
I blame it on being line bred.
I do have a first cousin breeding 5 gens back lol
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Reuben
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« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2021, 05:26:50 am » |
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The widows peak is expressed, only sometimes since it is recessive , when breeding two dogs with the recessive Black and Tan gene.
Whether they be of the same breed or ‘purebred’
Those dogs in turn if tightened up on ‘could’ produce Black and Tans.
From then on out Black and Tan may become the dominant color.
I believe this is proof of the terrier blood in the catahoula by way of the pitbull
Back in the 1970’s there was a breeder advertising Black and Tan APBT’s in one of the hunting magazines…it seems he advertised quite a few years… Years ago it was common to read similar articles by different writers but don’t see them anymore…it was written that the English bulldog, which was used for pit fighting and bull fighting in those days, was bred to a Black and Tan terrier and the results were a better fighting dog…I believe the Staffordshire terrier and APBT are a spin off of those initial breedings…also, the English bulldog of those times resembled the APBT’s of today more than the English bulldog of today… Back in England and Scotland, the terriers were well known for their fierce temperaments towards game…I do not know all the Black and Tan terriers of those days…there was one that was called the Black and Tan terrier…that is the one they used to cross with the bulldog… This terrier I believe was used to develop many terriers directly and indirectly such as the Lakeland, Welsch, Airedale… In breeding for a certain dominant dog color, there can be a recessive color gene hidden that when paired together will produce the recessive color…it can take a while to minimize the production of that color… When breeding two dogs displaying the same recessive color then it is a guarantee that each dog (sire and dam) are carrying two sets of the recessive genes for color and can only produce that one color when bred together. Sometimes, especially when outcrossing, we see two recessive colors of the same and when we make the cross…the colors in the offspring are not what we expected…I made this cross with 2 yellow dogs and had 10 brindle pups with all having different shades of yellow brindle…it turns out one of the yellow dogs was a brindle but the brindle could not be seen with the naked eye… |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2022, 10:29:55 am » |
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Many of the terriers in their mother countries back in the old days used to put some of the terrier breeds through extreme testing conditions for gameness…some were put in a barrel with a badger or other tough varmit and if the terrier could take the punishment and kill the varmit then the terrier passed as a potential breeder…I’m thinking it had to pass a hunting test as well…
Many of the terrier breeds have smaller, dark eyes and do not protrude past the head…they are flush with the skull…they are probably bred this way to minimize debris in the eyes when going to ground or to minimize injury when engaging dangerous game in close quarters…
The APBT…the game bred usually has the same type of eye…my thinking is that they were not intentionally bred this way…the APBT that were the winners in the pit were bred…the genetic make up of the winners included more genes from the terrier influences such as the terrier eye…
Don’t take this as fact about the APBT eye…it is theoretical thinking…
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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The Old Man
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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2022, 02:43:33 pm » |
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Quite a few Pits are the chocolate color with "orange" trim, in most breeds that is a dilute black and tan coloration.
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Semmes
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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2022, 11:36:16 pm » |
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The widows peak is expressed, only sometimes since it is recessive , when breeding two dogs with the recessive Black and Tan gene.
Whether they be of the same breed or ‘purebred’
Those dogs in turn if tightened up on ‘could’ produce Black and Tans.
From then on out Black and Tan may become the dominant color.
I believe this is proof of the terrier blood in the catahoula by way of the pitbull
Back in the 1970’s there was a breeder advertising Black and Tan APBT’s in one of the hunting magazines…it seems he advertised quite a few years… Years ago it was common to read similar articles by different writers but don’t see them anymore…it was written that the English bulldog, which was used for pit fighting and bull fighting in those days, was bred to a Black and Tan terrier and the results were a better fighting dog…I believe the Staffordshire terrier and APBT are a spin off of those initial breedings…also, the English bulldog of those times resembled the APBT’s of today more than the English bulldog of today… Back in England and Scotland, the terriers were well known for their fierce temperaments towards game…I do not know all the Black and Tan terriers of those days…there was one that was called the Black and Tan terrier…that is the one they used to cross with the bulldog… This terrier I believe was used to develop many terriers directly and indirectly such as the Lakeland, Welsch, Airedale… In breeding for a certain dominant dog color, there can be a recessive color gene hidden that when paired together will produce the recessive color…it can take a while to minimize the production of that color… When breeding two dogs displaying the same recessive color then it is a guarantee that each dog (sire and dam) are carrying two sets of the recessive genes for color and can only produce that one color when bred together. Sometimes, especially when outcrossing, we see two recessive colors of the same and when we make the cross…the colors in the offspring are not what we expected…I made this cross with 2 yellow dogs and had 10 brindle pups with all having different shades of yellow brindle…it turns out one of the yellow dogs was a brindle but the brindle could not be seen with the naked eye… |
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Semmes
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2022, 11:40:09 pm » |
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I agree with most of this post Reuben.
I too have read about the Black and Tan terrier and believe it to be a forebearer of many modern breeds.
Including the pitbull
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Semmes
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2022, 11:43:38 pm » |
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breeding two dogs displaying the same recessive color then it is a guarantee that each dog (sire and dam) are carrying two sets of the recessive genes for color and can only produce that one color when bred together.
This I’m not sure I agree with... I think it is a fact that there is a percentage that will display the recessive trait and not that they will only produce the recessive trait. |
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Semmes
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2022, 11:47:23 pm » |
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Quite a few Pits are the chocolate color with "orange" trim, in most breeds that is a dilute black and tan coloration.
This I agree with as well. And much in the same way of the dilute genetics I believe the widows peak expression is also a manifestation of the Black and Tan color in dogs. |
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Semmes
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« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2022, 11:52:02 pm » |
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I have read and seen pictures that prove the ‘gas house dog’, an early English imported pitbull, one of the progenitors to a lot of American stock produced Black and Tan regularly
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